Wednesday, January 12, 2011

The Definition Of Incoherent


From Andrew Sullivan, a selection of reactions to Sarah Palin's video.

How about this for logic:

1. "Acts of monstrous criminality stand on their own. They begin and end with the criminals who commit them."

2. "Especially within hours of a tragedy unfolding, journalists and pundits should not manufacture a blood libel that serves only to incite the very hatred and violence they purport to condemn."

In the first statement, she is saying that you can't incite people to violence, they stand on their own. The second statement, however, makes the opposite claim (that you can incite people to violence).

If crimes "begin and end with the criminals who commit them," I think Sarah Palin just endorsed a mosque near Ground Zero.

In addition to the inconsistency of Palin's blood libel accusation, there is this to be considered. If associating her violent political rhetoric tangentially with the Arizona shooting is a "blood libel" (accusing her of something heinous to incite violence against her), then why is her unfounded accusation of "death panels" against liberals not one as well? I think she has finally stepped into the quicksand and doesn't have the self-restraint to avoid flailing.


"Today has been set aside to honor the victims of the Tucson massacre. And Sarah Palin has apparently decided she's one of them," - Josh Marshall.


Palin simply can't help it. You know that friend of yours for whom everything is always about them? Your dad is in the hospital and your cat just died and you lost your job, and yet she blows up at you because you forgot her birthday? Palin is that friend.


Not entirely unrelated: in regards to Roger Ailes' (head of Fox "news") statement that he "told all of our guys, shut up, tone it down, make your argument intellectually. You don’t have to do it with bombast. I hope the other side does that," it's been pointed out that

"...there is so much going on in that single comment that undermines a lot of what he's intending to accomplish. The most notable is that by stating "the other side" he's explicitly admitting that his entire network is on the side of Palin/GOP and the right in general. Further: "Democrat Party"?? Forgive me if I find Ailes' call for sanity to be a little weak and disingenuous."

Another writes:

"Other side"? It’s telling that even the CEO doesn’t try to maintain the pretense of fairness and balance, his channel’s trademark.


Sigh. Sarah Palin and Fox "news." Idiocy with a megaphone.

22 comments:

SeaSpray said...

I should've put that other comment here.

Again ..what a great speech!

Even the president didn't get into the blame game. Good for him.

I think they all did a good job tonight.

Fox is giving him great reviews.

It was truly healing. I am happy for the families that have lost loved ones or seeing them trying to recover from injuries ...that they heard something so consoling, positive and inspirational. And that they have such national support.

And prayers, scriptures of faith invoked so much ...also comforting and healing.

After all the divisive ..derogatory news reports, etc these last few days ...tonight's memorial service was like a healing balm on an open wound.

Sid Schwab said...

I agree, Seaspray. I do wish, though, that the audience had treated it less like a pep rally (girls screaming).

And the point of this post addresses the real significance of Palin's reaction which you brought up in your other comment: the blood libel thing is a distraction. Dumb. But a distraction from the more central venality of her "poor me" response, missing an opportunity to show her ability to speak meaningfully and unifyingly about a larger issue (which she doesn't have, apparently.) If not now, when?

Big contrast, huh?

SeaSpray said...

I didn't notice the girls screaming just the applause. I was surprised at first, but maybe in the end it was it needed to be for the people directly involved. It was uplifting.

Regarding Sarah ... her star is still rising.

I am grateful this was a good night.

Sarah had to defend herself. What would you do ...if not long after this horrific act of violence ...you saw people were pointing to you as the cause of the shooter's action and said you had blood on your hands? And all the other stuff reported ad nauseam everywhere?

It has since come out that democrats also use the "target and cross hairs" talk and is commonly used. I "target" my goals all the time.

The president ...thankfully discourages that and made it clear tonight, thus effectively putting an end to all the wrongful accusations. I wonder if the Sherrif will still go on air accusing Rush, Fox, etc?

This speech will be remembered as a shining moment for him and I am *glad* about that.

I am glad that Alan D. clarified the use of blood libel. Otherwise ..she was being attacked for that as well.

See previous post for his clarification on the proper use of blood libel. (It is okay and should not be offended by it)

Anonymous said...

"After all the divisive ..derogatory news reports, etc these last few days ...tonight's memorial service was like a healing balm on an open wound."

Now we read that Speaker John Boehner - "The Grim Weeper" -

..."will host a cocktail party for the Republican National Committee at the same time that President Barack Obama will be addressing the nation at the memorial service for victims of the Tucson shooting."

"A Boehner aide emphasized that the RNC reception was scheduled before the memorial event was set."

"Boehner turned down a Tuesday invitation from Obama to fly to Tucson with him, Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and other lawmakers for the Wednesday night memorial service."

Note, that the speaker had seen fit to put aside the business of the country, because it would have been unseemly, for congress to meet and pass laws, in the aftermath of the murders.

Yet, strangely, he was not so scrupulous when it came to meeting with the RNC for the purpose of fund raising.

I guess the speaker decided to mix a little salt, with the healing balm, on that wound.

Of course, this is the man who actually handed out checks from the tobacco industry ($150,000.00) on the floor of the House, in 1995, when the House was considering a bill to end a tobacco subsidy.

In other news:

Four republicans resigned from various Arizona posts - "Republican District 20 Chairman Anthony Miller, The newly-elected Dist. 20 Republican secretary, Sophia Johnson, first vice chairman Roger Dickinson, and former district spokesman Jeff Kolb, also quit."

Because of death threats, they say, from the Tea Party.

It would seem that even some republicans do not believe that Liberal concerns about death threats and hate speech constitute "Blood Libel" and further, they take such speech seriously enough to value their lives'

Apparently, they see the murders as more than the isolated act of a madman.

Whataya think, SS, DrekMan...Anyone?

EugeneInSanDiego

SeaSpray said...

My follow up comments?

I saved them if you didn't get them.

Anonymous said...

Best simile I have read in a while:

"...begging for civility out of teabaggers is like trying to convince a treeful of chimpanzees to stop masturbating."

That's a light interjection from a very thoughtful article from 'The Stranger' that explores the question of what constitutes a political action.

In response to the RWS screaming "Not our fault... and how dare you even try to make it political by implying it was political?"

The writer says: "Palin is the monstrous love child of Lee Atwater and Karl Rove, and she long ago crossed the line between hateful rhetoric and incitement to violence."

And here's what happens when politicians feed the hyenas raw meat:

"...when politics goes crazy—when politicians go crazy—the crazies go crazier."

See the full article(Crosshairs and Consequences) @:

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/crosshairs-and-consequences/Content?oid=6265645

EugeneInSanDiego

Sid Schwab said...

If by "star is rising" you mean poll numbers dropping like a rock, you're right on.

If "I know you are but what am I" is an argument, an answer to the question whether her sort of rhetoric is okay, then fine. Did you know there's a store chain called "target?" Does that mean something? Or is it a different thing when a person with national political aspirations calls for people to "reload." Same as you having production targets?

See, that's why we're so fractured in this country. The indefensible is defended with non sense.

To defend Rush Limbaugh's style of hatred is to make me wonder why I bother responding. It's a sickness, and I have no cure, you have no immunity.

And I'm glad you've taken to taking Mr Dershowitz' opinions over others. Hold that though for future reference.

Sid Schwab said...

P.S, SS: you might find this interesting. It's by a conservative woman columnist, of whom you probably haven't heard because, unlike Ann Coulter, Laura Ingrahan, and Sarah Palin, she tends toward the thoughtful.

Sid Schwab said...

Or this, from a right-of-center site, which includes a comment from Ari Fleisher, a regular on Fox "news," Bush's former press secretary (in case you've forgotten) and, like Dershowitz, Jewish. Since that seems to matter to you.

Anonymous said...

"What would you do ...if not long after this horrific act of violence ...you saw people were pointing to you as the cause of the shooter's action and said you had blood on your hands?"

Well...one could actually look at one's hands, and if one found there was blood on them, one could take responsibility and apologize.

One could tell one's supporters to stop spewing hatred on one's behalf.

One could ... but then, we are talking about Palin and her troop of bloody-handed, masturbating chimps, aren't we? - Nevermind!

So instead she quickly blathered about "Blood Libel" to give the chimps something to chant as they fapped away in unison.

Then, when the Jews were outraged, she scrubbed her comments until Buchanan told her to "Screw the Jews" then she doubled down and posted them again - Ta-da!

And once more, in your saintly way, you blessed her. Go wash your hands!

By the way SS, Palin claimed that "We never intended for those X's (surveyor's marks?)on the map to look like crosshairs."

Then it came to light, that she had bragged about the efficacy, of what she had described, on Twitter, as bull's eyes on the map she posted on her website.

So what do you think SS, did she lie about the "Bulls eyes" hoping that nobody would notice or what?

How do you explain her self contradiction?

EugeneInSanDiego

Anonymous said...

Why do people keep talking about Palin?

She has no chance of being elected president.
Thoughtful conservatives and independents won't vote for her in numbers large enough to be meaningful.

She should have continued governing alaska (with a great approval rating) and learned more about foreign policy and economics. At that point, she may have been a contender.

Regards,
PT

Anonymous said...

"Thoughtful conservatives and independents won't vote for her in numbers large enough to be meaningful."

So...do you mean that some "Thoughtful conservatives" like you and SSWoman perhaps, will vote for her, but that other "Thoughtful conservatives" will not be voting for her - or what?

In other words, what do "Thoughtful conservatives" think about her, as opposed to 'Un-thoughtful conservatives?'

And which are you?

People keep talking about the Twittler, because she keeps talking about herself and her boosters keep saying Amen!

I understand your perplexity though, because if I had defended her idiotic inanity, I too, would wish that conservatives, thoughtful and otherwise, would shut up!

EugeneInSanDiego

Sid Schwab said...

Another data point for Seaspray (don't miss my previous ones, a couple of comments north of this one.) This is from one of the most neoconiest of the neocons, an early proclaimer of the second coming when he saw Sarah. He's also Jewish. He addressed the "blood libel" thing and comes to a very different conclusion from that of your new hero. And he's one of the most prominent "intellectual" Republican (oxymoron alert) voices.

Read it here. Be sure to read the whole thing, which ends with this:

If she doesn’t serious herself up, Palin is on the direct path to irrelevancy. She won’t be the second Ronald Reagan; she’ll be the Republican incarnation of Jesse Jackson.

In my view, of course, it's way too late for that. In fact, it was too late before she started.

Anonymous said...

It was so much fun wasn't it? All the RWS puppies got to run and bay with the pack; they got to be part of something much larger than their miserable selves.

They got a chance to see who could howl and out growl all the other puppies; but suddenly there were all these bodies on the ground: actual PEOPLE and blood everywhere; there were men and women screaming and dying and there was a little girl - a little girl.

Then they began to whine "what the hell is this?" "I didn't sign up for THIS! "I thought we were just playing."

So they began to look to the big dogs to see what they should do, but the big dogs were suddenly saying "Hey, this isn't our fault, we didn't want this." "It was a lone wolf that did this!"

And the puppies were confused and began to whine "But you said..."

But the big dogs got angry and started barking, and growling even louder and biting at them.

So, being puppies, they took up the howling and growling themselves, and soon the pack was united and in full cry again.

The moral: When you run with the pack, you are part of the pack, or you get your ass bitten.

EugeneInSanDiego

Sid Schwab said...

Seaspray, we do agree on one thing: we both hope Sarah Palin is the Republican nominee for 2012.

SeaSpray said...

So ..Dr S ...You didn't publish my long comment? I saved it.

And I never said I wanted her to run.

You are doing it yet AGAIN!! There is no point in me commenting. You twist it or totally miss the point.
And put words in my mouth.

I actually hope Trump enters the contest. That will be colorful.

I have no idea who I am lining up with yet and have to see who all the contenders are and if you remember back in 08 ...I did not like anyone and just had to settle for McCain.

Anonymous said...

"...I did not like anyone and just had to settle for McCain."

And that good christian woman, Mrs. Palin.

EugeneInSanDiego

Anonymous said...

Seaspray, you actually have a point? You are the most gracious word-meister of the right-wing adherents on this blog, your posts are like "soothing balms." Don't you get the horror of what you perpetuate? Sarah Palin is a rising star??

What kind of world do you live in that such a derisive, ignorant, self-centered human could possibly be taken seriously?

Sorry, Dr Schwab, I went off-point on the article, this response just sat poorly in my stomach.

bl

Anonymous said...

"One Tucson tea party founder - Trent Humphries - says that Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ) has herself to blame for getting shot in the head Saturday."

According to him, She went out without "Security" so it's her fault.

Fork #1 of the RepubliBagger tongue:

This is how it works, first,they create a climate of hate and fear, then, if Gabrielle Giffords refused to be intimidated, and was shot, she was "asking for it!

Fork #2 of the RepubliBagger tongue:

But if she had hired guards, he would have said "See, she doesn't trust her constituents, she hired a bunch of guns to go to a small gathering at a market."

By the way SS, I see you are checking back. Please check your notes; did that nice Mrs. Palin fib about the symbols on her map; you know, where she called them "Bulls Eyes" - on Twitter - then after the shooting, said she never meant for them to look like targets?

Remember?

EugeneInSanDiego

SeaSpray said...

Ha! When I woke up and heard on the news that Palin was chosen as the VP running mate I exclaimed"Who the Hell is Sarah Palin?"

I was not pleased.

But I have come to like her for several reasons.

I can also see how unfairly she's been attacked. VILE things even. I am surprised someone hasn't attacked her ..although I know she gets death threats.

Information can be gleaned from anywhere by the common folk who are no longer beholden to limited sources. It's a beautiful thing to have been able to see/hear/read about all the times democrats used the phrase target and cross hairs against their political opponents.

By the way ...I do NOT hold anything against the dems for doing that. It's a common phrase. I target things all the time. And to see that there are so many sources to get to the truth of things. Gotta love instant REPLAY for both political parties. The liberals that perpetuated this hate and linking conservatives to this recent crime only made themselves look bad. Even Jon Stewart came out against it on his show. But in here ..I still read it.

There are things I don't like or agree with about Palin. I don't even know who is in the running yet or what their specific goals are.

Do YOU already know which candidate you will be voting for?

I should've realized that the name Sarah Palin is a hot button in here. But I was not even thinking that way.

Obama gave a great speech that I do believe was encouraging, inspirational and HEALING ..or he meant it to be.

I was remembering how he was the new guy on the scene at the democratic convention. We were on vacation at the shore and all sitting around the tv that night and we were all impressed by him. Who would've thought he'd be the president in 2008? It was so fast. People said he was a rising star. It was obvious.

I just have a feeling that this is just the beginning with Palin. It is obvious to me she is a rising star. Does that mean I want her to be president or that she will be? I have no idea! I shared an observation. She is definitely going to be a force in politics ...if she chooses to continue in the political arena. I guess you all will remember I said this if her star does rise and shine brightly.

I am more likely to vote male. That being said ..believe me I would vote for a woman if she proves to be the better choice. I am discerning. I would've voted for Hillary over Obama. Absolutely.

Oh and I dislike when people (both parties) make fun of Hillary's pant suits, hair, Michele's butt, Rush's weight,Kennedy's drinking,...what ever.

And definitely dislike all honing in on phrases, words and all this ridiculous pC stuff. that tells me if that is all they have ..they don't have any substance to their arguments at all.

You can lock in on blood libel if you want, but I want to know about the budget, health care, military,missions, world politics and our place in the world, etc. I care about the issues...NOT the ridiculous ways people try to harm their opponents ..except that this past weekend was over the top with accusations and thank God ..President Obama himself came out against it.

Also, people are human. they will make verbal slip ups ..for sure in this overly PC environment. Issues!

People that do that ..instantly discredit themselves in that moment. And it happens in both parties ..and ALL media outlets. I instantly want to defend the unfair attacks. It is a relief ..when they get back to the important issues.

SeaSpray said...

Eugene said"This is how it works, first,they create a climate of hate and fear, then, if Gabrielle Giffords refused to be intimidated, and was shot, she was "asking for it!"

Seriously?!

I suppose women who get raped ask for it too!???

Anonymous said...

Where to begin...?

Well, SS, I understand your perception is weird, so maybe it's your prescription.

You said: "Eugene said "This is how it works"...she was asking for it."

I didn't say that. The Teabagger - tea party founder - Trent Humphries said that.

He said: "Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ) has herself to blame for getting shot in the head Saturday."

I suppose that, by extension, he being a TeaBagger, would also claim that women ask to be raped.

The second part of my statement anticipates what he would probably have said if Gabrielle, had not "asked for it" and chose to employ guards. Read it again.

You said: "I can also see how unfairly she's (Mrs. Palin) been attacked. VILE things even. I am surprised someone hasn't attacked her."

So you do agree then, that violent speech leads to violent actions and that it's not just liberals making 'over the top accusations' linking violent speech to this recent crime.

You said: "I want to know about the budget, health care, military,missions, world politics and our place in the world"

Best not to be looking to the RepubliBaggers then; their stated goals, from here on, are to destroy what the president has accomplished, no matter what the cost to the country.

You said: It's a beautiful thing to have been able to see/hear/read about all the times democrats used the phrase target and cross hairs."

Oh, did any Democrats retroactively change their story about the use of cross-hairs and such?

But I'm really glad you brought that up!

Did you check your notes; did that nice Mrs. Palin fib about the symbols on her map; you know, where she called them "Bulls Eyes" - on Twitter - then after the shooting, said she never meant for them to look like targets?

EugeneInSanDiego

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