Friday, January 9, 2015

That's It. We're Done.



This:

... One bill — pre-filed in the state House — would create a Second Amendment Awareness Day to be held on Dec. 15 each year in all state schools, complete with a poster or essay contest centered on the theme “The Right To Bear Arms: One American Right Protecting All Others.”
Students — at every grade level — would receive at least three weeks of education on their gun rights based on a curriculum chosen by the state Department of Education and approved or recommended by the National Rifle Association.
“Zero-tolerance policies have squelched any discussion of the Second Amendment in schools,” said Rep. Alan Clemmons, R-Myrtle Beach...
[Image source]

12 comments:

Larry Simoneaux said...

Sid:

Sometimes (most times, actually), when I hear something like this, I just want to put my face into a pillow and scream.

In every arena of thought, word, and action, there's a bell-shaped curve describing the people, views, beliefs, and (too often, unfortunately, in this arena) actions covered by that curve. As regards firearms and their place in our society, the "two-sigmas" on both sides get the most attention and publicity. Too often, they also hold the most sway.

Since you've seen my "arsenal," you know what I believe about the ownership of firearms. The thing is, I also believe that we firearm owners are our own worst enemy. The news accounts, youtube videos, and even personal experiences of many regarding the idiotic behavior of a segment of firearm owners shows me that, even though we have the right to "bear arms," there should be some filter in our society to ensure that those who should never touch a firearm are prevented from doing so.

Unfortunately, this will never happen and I've lost the last wisps of hope that those who "speak" on a national level for firearm owners would offer even a modicum of common sense, compassion, and logic when presenting or proposing solutions to the problems that a flood of firearms can present in a fractured society such as ours.

I guess my only contribution to this mess will be that I'll do my best to remain under the middle of the curve and never be the cause of injury to others since I'll only give up my firearms when they pry my arthritic fingers from the trigger guard they've gotten caught in while I was cleaning them.

Larry

Sid Schwab said...

Larry, if all gun owners were like you, there'd be no problem at all. And I'd assume that, to the extent that the founding fathers actually foresaw the ubiquity of guns that has happened (I sorta doubt they did), they had you in mind in ensuring gun rights.

Smoothtooperate said...

Sitting on the fence is the same as agreeing with the NRA/status quo. The "gee I dunno" type folks. The "voting is a waste of time" people. "I can't decide." The "i'm bipartisan" excuse is extinct, it no longer exists. They all agree with the NRA by their actions/inaction. The only time I don't have an opinion is if I know nothing about it.There is definitely a problem.

As long as the vast majority of American wants common sense laws regulating guns and the bill never comes to a full vote because Teahadists block it in the house(and now senate.) Those that sit on the fence are with the right wing. The radical far right. The "second amendment solution" people. Every single bat shit bunker dwelling conspiracy sponge. You are shoulder to shoulder with all those people and more by sitting on the fence and not making a cogent and complete choice.

I think it's all long over due. The gun lobby needs a giant enema. It will never happen as long as the teahadists are in charge. So no worries. The gubmint ain't comin' fur yur guns. But I would hurry up and buy every assault weapon you see. You just never know when you'll need em'. I know Cliven Bundy came strapped and an army of "sport hunting rifle" totin' retired law enforcement militia and some friggin' crazies sprinkled among them.

This is not rocket science. I'd be more worried about a Teahadist canceling my right to vote. That's way more scary.

Larry Simoneaux said...

"Smooth"

(I've always wondered why many choose not to use their real names when stating opinions, but that's another discussion)

I'm going to apologize in advance if I've misconstrued your comments as being directed toward my post.

That said, I'll offer that "gee I dunno,""sitting on the fence," "voting is a waste of time," "I can't decide" all lead me to think that you should consider another sobriquet. It being "Never assume."

I say that because, if such were being applied to me, I'd offer that you don't know me at all. If you did, you'd know that I've spent a lifetime devoted to making others safe around firearms. I've been a hunter for 37 years. In the Navy I was a Range Safety Officer and a Gunnery Officer who never had a single accident on his watch. I've taught Hunter and Firearms Safety for the state for 15 years as a volunteer, been a certified rifle instructor, and have given time as a volunteer to teach inexperienced shooters how to safely handle their firearms.

As a voter and a citizen, I've written many letters and made many phone calls to my representative offering ideas - based on my experience with firearms - on how to reduce the carnage. I've even, on occasion, sat down with them to offer the same. Nothing has ever come of those letters or meetings.

In defense of those representatives, similar letters and calls to "my side" have been rebuffed, ignored, or even labeled as "giving in."

Too, I've never been taken up on many offers to sit down with "anti-firearms" groups to let them have at me while discussing why many of their ideas will never fly with "my side" or even, for that matter, work.

As one example, the call to reduce the capacity of magazines is a non-starter simply because I can show you how to tape three 10-round magazines together in such a way that they can be inserted in seconds (less than three) to get us all the way back to a 30 round mag before you can even say the words.

The best analogy is that both "sides" have retreated to their respective trenches and no one is going to venture into the "no man's land" of honest compromise - thanks to the "two-sigmas" who seem to hold sway in this debate.

My point to Sid was that, after all of the years of trying to reach either side and come up with some proposals that might not please everyone, but could actually be a step toward sanity, I'm simply coming to the point of despair. Still, though, I'll continue to take steps to see that - at the very least - I never injure anyone.

A small step, but I can still sleep at night.

Again, if I've misconstrued your comments, I apologize.

Regards,

Larry Simoneaux

Smoothtooperate said...

Naw, I think you got most of the gist of my rant. It was not directed at you per say. It was more of a conversational kindling if you will. You sound to me like a reasonable guy. You sound like a professional to me. So I'll try to dissect your comment as it comes.

"(I've always wondered why many choose not to use their real names when stating opinions, but that's another discussion)".

"I'm going to apologize in advance if I've misconstrued your comments as being directed toward my post."

"That said, I'll offer that "gee I dunno,""sitting on the fence," "voting is a waste of time," "I can't decide" all lead me to think that you should consider another sobriquet. It being "Never assume."

I am not exactly sure what passive aggressive is, but in my opinion, that's what your statement struck me as and here's why.

My real name has nothing to do with it in any way shape or form on any issue. Why do gun crazies fear gun registration? I know you know the answer to that...Real name you say? You should never ever have to apologize for your opinion/perspective, what am I out listening to you? I ain't out nothin' is what I am out, unless it's learn something new. Then I get that learning moment. So it's a plus in most cases in my opinion. Moving along.

"Assuming" You do alot of that as well. I am a grunt Marine 0351 to be exact. I have every respect for the most knowledgeable professionals in the world IE Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard etc. and especially the Marine corps. But truthfully they/you are the best in the world in my opinion.

RE: "Assuming" That nobody here knows my name or what I do or don't do. Sid actually knows exactly who I am. By the way, I repeat, whether I am Smooth or my real name doesn't matter. I call em' as I see em' and everything I say is on the record. I don't do "off the record". If you knew me you'd know that what you see is exactly what you get. Bad good or ugly I seriously don't know how to be anyone else but me. I don't hide behind anyone ever. I am very easy to find as well. I am a disabled vet, raising 5 kids single handed. I advocate for just about every group/subset of people who are on the short end of the stick in my opinion. I have no agenda other than to say as much as I know as much as possible to as many people as possible about the stuff I know. I'm a big boy and anyone that wants can argue with me about it. I really like to learn, that's the fun part. Finding ways to say the same thing over and over and keep it fresh, is the part that sucks. That said, I really like being a broadcaster so even the sucky part is fun most of the time. Sid can confirm all that and alot more regarding who and what I am.

Smoothtooperate said...

Part 2...

Assuming "Too, I've never been taken up on many offers to sit down with "anti-firearms" groups to let them have at me while discussing why many of their ideas will never fly with "my side" or even, for that matter, work."

We've never tried that approach, how do we know? We don't. Right? So why the absolute opinion w/o flexibility over a single issue? (size of magazines)I've been to Teahadist rally's and mingled 2ce. My kids have to walk by "God fairing" "Right to lifers" hassling women and children that walk into the Planned Parenthood on their way to and from school. The exact same people at a Teahadist rally I went to that summer. They are very protective of their guns to put it lightly "cold dead hands" says it all(Cliven Bundy). They have some funny notions about the Constitution and people of color. That came shining through.

Also, I am not "anti firearm" I just want gun owners to be responsible. Not every gun owner is a professional IE: (kids). Take a class and you know how to shoot. Sorry brother, that don't fly as "education" in my book. It does not in yours either if you are a range officer. I am a Marine. I am a professional. I don't ever think for a second anyone around me is a professional as well. It takes weeks and months and years to be a true pro, and you know this to be true. So sorry brother, I strongly disagree with that whole line of thinking as well.

As far as how fast I can dissemble and resemble the M-16 blindfolded doesn't matter. I can change mags with the best, and still don't matter. Neither does my grammar or the fact I can't spell. What does matter is your experience and the perspective formed from that experience. As I said, you are a professional. Despite all the great professionals we still have an obvious problem that is not going away soon because that bastion of "fire arms safety and education" AKA NRA, and right wing nut jobs. You assume that "safe and professional fire arms instructors" grow on trees. Those folks ain't doing but 10% of the job. The other 80-90% don't have a clue. You are seeing this through a professional eye. Why so many "accidents" if everyone is responsible? How many times have you had an accident? Zero right? You'll go to your grave with a clean record. That cop who left his gun in the console for his admittedly gun curious kid. That uh..."professional" has a dead kid, and a kid with that guilt and parents as well. The cop was never charged with any crime. Not even a letter of reprimand. Just a dead kid. Guns don't kill people...Yeah, a gun killed that baby like it or not and that's reality.

Smoothtooperate said...

Part 3...


Humans and guns are not mutually exclusive. Both guns and humans can be an equally responsible to cause a death by firearm. So "non starter" arguments are the opposite of an open mind and I disagree with that entire mind set.

"Smaller mags are a none starter"

"As one example, the call to reduce the capacity of magazines is a non-starter simply because I can show you how to tape three 10-round magazines together in such a way that they can be inserted in seconds (less than three) to get us all the way back to a 30 round mag before you can even say the words."

Really now? We've never tried restricting magazines so how would we know if it works or not?

Navy Range Officer for over a decade vs. crazy jarhead father of five.. We both get an M-16. I get 30 round mags and 50 round drums. You get 10 round mags and a roll of duct tape. I don't know about you but my money is on the crazy gun hater jarhead baby factory dude every time. Yet talking about making mags smaller is a "non starter" and is 100% irrelevant in your opinion. C'mon man. AKA Sacred cow, AKA "I'm done listening to you and will never budge" and all other stuff you got to say is from your perspective and assumptions based on zero basis not a whole lot else man. The Teahadists are the same ilk. Either do what I say(allow the XL Keystone project to be approved now, "right now" or it's go fly a kite from then on as if we don't have an other issues, as an excuse to hold the good faith and credit of our American govt. hostage...(They executed that hostage by the way and we were credit downgraded for the first time in American history.) The "do nothings" are alive and well at the NRA, congress etc. I'd hate to see what would happen by restricting mag sizes and registering the dang things.

Smoothtooperate said...

Part 4...

I am right back to misconceptions and simple mental mistakes and the consequences every single person pays for in blood. There's the NRA "Only a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun." Then list 30 times that has happened in history kinda utter crap in support of the argument as well. OK, but what about the 100's of thousands of other times? We got people gunning down classrooms of kids, movie theater, and any other soft target a mass murder can go and shoot fish in a barrel? By the way, did you happen to read the story about the 2 cops that were gunned down? Bad guys 2 - Good guys and their families 0. all by knockout. For a century+ that philosophy has not worked either, in spite of all the top notch professionals for the last 100+ years. We all do know one thing. Mass murders started when the rifles fired faster with a bigger magazine to insure you'll have enough ammo w/o reloading. Guns and the people who use them are equal parts of the conversation as is all other relevant evidence. They are not compartmentalized mutually exclusive players. They are all equal, each as important as the other.

But you are a pro and know this already. You are a smart guy as well for sure. But you will see me get a little miffed when lack of common sense is killing people. "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." All gun violence has one thing in common. They all involve a gun. It's not rocket science. People die from others agenda, stupidity, ignorance etc.

Like...

"Let's ban hammers then"...Really? lol. It's simply an example of a wing nut talking point(deflection). But the NRA does and so do "gun lovers" far and wide. "Ban hammers" actually makes sense to these people as a proper argument in support! I mean, c'mon man, as a dad of 5, a Marine and a broadcaster/smart ass, I am at my limit with an agenda driven, ignorant or stupid people who are simply sitting on their tuffet with paranoia, hate, ignorance and stupidity as their guide and nothing happens at all regarding gun regulations because of it. In fact gun sales go up every time there's a mass murder or some dude running around killing people in the name of God(I mean all Gods). The only solution is more guns everywhere says the NRA.

At what point does a guy like me finally lose their mind? I think that gun owners should have to register them period. Gun owners pay for any liability incurred due to their gun misbehaving by shooting people by accident or otherwise. "only criminals will have guns" is once again ignorant. NOBODY will come for your guns so don't worry. You won't be defenseless to bad guys without your beloved "sport hunting rifles". If it's all on the up and up? How come I called my M-16 a rifle/weapon" and the same weapon is "a sport hunting rifle" in the hands of a civilian? (Spare me the non automatic excuse. We both know how to tweak them to fire auto.)Because the wing nuts load of dung is just that and they know it. So we shine up a description. Frank Luntz has made millions rewording right wing nuts talking points into a dog whistle style dialog."David Duke w/o the baggage" for example. What's in a name you say? Alot it seems...

Don't take any of it personal because it's not. I honestly don't care if anyone is pro gun or not. Just don't make lame arguments in support of ones point of view no matter what a persons view may be. Like because one strongly disagrees, yet regardless, I still get my way requires that person to propose a "Second amendment solution" to end the debate. AKA "non starter" line of thinking. Win at all costs type thinking. I reject it all and will not ignore it. Because it matters. It really is life and death. If "reasonable" is equal to "non starter" then yeah...I'm not going to let that fly.

I'll give you the last word brother.

Smoothtooperate said...

Larry, this is a perfect example of what I am trying to say. Are you on board with McConnell? Maybe listing parts you like or don't and why, in your opinion, would give me a clearer perspective on what you are trying to communicate.

Milbank: New Senate majority leader off to a bitter start

http://posttrib.chicagotribune.com/opinions/32106797-474/milbank-new-senate-majority-leader-off-to-a-bitter-start.html#.VLJ-tdLF8Z8

Here's a good explanation of what I am talking about and I really do want to hear your perspective.

I am pretty rough and tumble in my opinions/the way I express myself. I am kinda like Charles minus being highly educated and really rough around the edges and I use alot more words. I may sound angry sometimes but I am really not at all. If we had the same conversation in person you'd see a different perspective that makes all the difference in my case anyway. I am a bulldog who likes to argue. Think of me that way and you'd be alot closer to the truth regarding my character. People misunderstand that when I type my opinion almost to a man, woman and child. People who meet me have a completely different experience saying the exact same things I say here, there, and everywhere.

All that said, I really want to hear what you agree and disagree with on both parties platforms and the Mitch McConnell speech. While Sid knows your positions on things. I am not that informed so bullet points are usually all I need to make a picture. Then I ask questions again and go from there. That's how I usually communicate with people.

I felt compelled to try to explain where I am coming from.

Larry Simoneaux said...

Smooth:

Great response! Deeply appreciate the time you took to put it all into words.

One of the things I deeply believe is that written snippets (or truly detailed response such as yours) can never substitute for sitting down with someone in person.

In correspondence such as this, you lose the facial expressions, the body language, the depth of feeling allied with a belief (I've seen tears in people' eyes when they're speaking on something that truly "lights their fire"). In other words you don't truly get to know a person.

Another of my core beliefs is that most of us are about 90% alike and that (again, in most instances) we can come to - if not agreement on a topic - at least an understanding of another's opinion with a reasonable agreement to disagree.

Care to meet? Coffee? Lunch? A Navy/Marine competition at Kenmore Shooting Range?


Larry

PS...One of the suggestions I made in a public forum was to go to non-detachable (8 round max..and I thought 8 might be about 3 too many) mags on all military styled firearms. Makes a shooter have to stop, reload via the action, and slows things way down.

"My side" wanted my head on a stick.

Again, want to meet??? We can talk about Sid behind his back.

Smoothtooperate said...

""My side" wanted my head on a stick."

Why?

Here's the thing...

If mag restrictions don't matter because you can tape em' together. Then why all the huff about wanting to limit mags? They can tape em' together till the cows come home and be same same...

Right? Semi auto is easily customized to go full auto. So why ban automatic weapons? Same logic as the previous. What's the beef?.

Now lemme guess...They then showed their ignorance or worse by giving their twisted version of the Constitution. Right? They think they are experts because they watch FOX 'news'. These FOX 'news' watching intellectual heavies are experts at regurgitation neocon most days and that's about it.

Go down the list and you'll find this horrible flawed path/method of thinking, and then acting all the way down that list to the bottom. A method of learning that has got us to where we are today as a society and especially politics. Don't get me started about our education system.

It goes like this...

You can believe all you want that being wet and cold will cause you a cold of the virus variety. So the worst that happens is you bundle up and go into the dangerous cold virus, er cold. But if a ridiculous solution gains steam on the TV, some people automatically believe it and regard it as fact. Then they go to the voting booth because they are hopping mad and really old...and white. Then we get that same politician person who confirms our fears put into office ASAP.

The same brain washed people are left w/o their manufacturing jobs. They lost their homes. Their kids are dead from war. Their grand kids lives are ruined as well. Their G-Kids will live in a trash can of a country. Drilling for oil in every national park. Yeah, makes sense to me because i can't afford the gas to get to my $4.00 an hour job in my "right to work for less" state. While I complain about the libs sucking the money tank dry with their "feckless" DSHS policies. Churches fix hunger, not the govt. type thinking. Even though the red states meager existence is supported/subsidized by the blue states who have refused to go the route of their conservative cousins.

My daughter is kicking me off the PC...lol...brb

Smoothtooperate said...

"Great response! Deeply appreciate the time you took to put it all into words."

Thank you...It does take a very long time for me to write anything. My less than stellar academic career makes things difficult to get it all just the way I want. That's the reason I started writing in the first place. Improve my grammar, and spelling especially. Then I got interested in politics during that time. I went from being the poster Marine to I can barely walk or sit. I had lots of time and even more anxiety to burn. I found learning very very late in life. So I thank you for recognizing the effort. I really do slave over these things. It took all day to write my super sized response to you. Thanks again...I was practically illiterate 35+ years ago. I was 10 years old and couldn't read well at all. Now I won't shut up...lol

Yeah man, food is good. I love coffee too! I drink wayyyy too much coffee so says my Dr. but I'm not ready to give it up yet. I don't drink or smoke so I eat and drink too much coffee. I drink as much coffee as Dave Grohl.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhdCslFcKFU

But yeah I'd love to do lunch or breakfast. Breakfast for lunch? My schedule is really flexible because I am a lazy liberal taker. The work skedge rocks as a taker!

Sid has my email stashed somewhere. He can send it along to you.

Unfortunately you'd kick me arse in a shooting competition. I can't play pool either or swim. It's the bending I can't do. Standing solid on my feet for very long is pretty tough to do even on a good day. I could prolly do a semi respectable prone position score. I could shoot 220 in a hurricane back in the day. I could snuggle into all the positions etc. Best I ever shot was a 238. I bet I couldn't break 110 now doing the same qualifying. That's if I could deal with the pain the whole way. It's almost impossible not to shake. All that said...I got no problem eating!...lol

I'd be honored. Send me a mail and we'll talk about Sid behind his back. You and I were raised right Larry...lol

Thanks a again for all the kind words.

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