tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4988839706387198339.post5085573844952553622..comments2024-03-17T12:51:46.412-07:00Comments on Cutting Through The Crap: What The Devil?Sid Schwabhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14182853083503404098noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4988839706387198339.post-80252558161310277502010-01-16T21:08:39.075-08:002010-01-16T21:08:39.075-08:00Pat Robertson just can't stand anyone, includi...Pat Robertson just can't stand anyone, including God, getting more attention than him, so he blames acts of God on his fellow man in the Devil's name hoping that way everyone will notice him instead. <br /><br />That's a pretty thin hope to base one's life on.AlisonHhttp://spindyeknit.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4988839706387198339.post-91966777744896506252010-01-14T20:50:34.265-08:002010-01-14T20:50:34.265-08:00Dino, in my various rants on religion, especially ...Dino, in my various rants on religion, especially those on Surgeonsblog, I've nearly always acknowledged the role belief has in comforting the sick and their families; in fact, I've said I'm always pleased to deal with such families (except in the cases where, as I wrote a couple of years back, when the very religious, confronting, for example, cancer have a psychic collapse over the idea "why me? I've done everything right.") because, frankly, it's easier when they see it all as part of God's plan.<br /><br />I've never disagreed with what you seem to say, ie that religion is a construct (you might not buy that term) of man, for the purpose of salving the existential angst we feel as self-aware beings, knowing that death will happen. For most, it works. It's a way of answering the unanswerable in exactly the ways needed to give comfort. Truth of it is irrelevant. Nor do I have a problem with seeing the bible metaphorically. It's the literalists that are, literally, killing us all slowly. <br /><br />I've always thought that religion ought to help us deal with the world the way it is, rather than demand that we deny what we know. If beliefs (eg, the age of the earth) are demonstrably wrong, we ought to change the beliefs; but they do it the other way around.<br /><br />I also think there may be an evolutionary component: developing respect for authority might have had a survival benefit. Trust the leader to keep us safe. The "god gene," as it's been described. <br /><br />And thanks for the info about the Kaddish. It's been a long time.Sid Schwabhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14182853083503404098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4988839706387198339.post-23430068974770882922010-01-14T17:51:08.843-08:002010-01-14T17:51:08.843-08:00I always read you, Sid. I rarely comment, because ...I always read you, Sid. I rarely comment, because the vast majority of the time, all I could say is "Hear, hear!"<br /><br />My take on god/religion/etc. is simply that I refuse to take any of it literally. Which means all your fancy footwork about prayer, god, creation, free will, etc. is irrelevant. Religion -- although misused by a very large proportion of its proponents -- has nothing to do with the "how" of the universe. Rather, it's a framework that can meet the emotional needs of human beings.<br /><br />You can present an extremely cogent argument against life after death (a la PZ Myers and other atheists), but when you've watched a family bury two sons in ten weeks, and you see the comfort they get from imagining their boys in heaven, together, and at peace...anyone who dares try to debate them is an asshole.<br /><br />Religion doesn't (shouldn't) have anything to do with science. But in times of pain -- and joy -- humans have needs that science cannot fill. <br /><br />Interestingly, the bit you quote about "they still live on the acts of goodness..." has nothing to do with the Kaddish itself, which is basically a prayer praising god (one in which you deny belief). In fact, the prayer doesn't have anything to do with death, which is why it was adopted to help mourners remain connected with the living. The part you're quoting is from the extra material usually recited before the Kaddish itself. Still, I think it shows that at some level, you recognize the power of religion to be of emotional comfort in trying times.#1 Dinosaurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01357845504444464397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4988839706387198339.post-4391547819231613082010-01-14T15:56:35.288-08:002010-01-14T15:56:35.288-08:00JB: As you well know, I love you, man.
You, of al...JB: As you well know, I love you, man.<br /><br />You, of all people should have enjoyed the "deviled oogs" comment, and I'm shocked and hurt that you didn't mention it. (Not really, as you also know.)Sid Schwabhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14182853083503404098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4988839706387198339.post-56336648553147622382010-01-14T15:50:28.478-08:002010-01-14T15:50:28.478-08:00JB of Sid blog space fame surfaces for once to com...JB of Sid blog space fame surfaces for once to comment on Sid's religious ruminations. I cannot debate a brain like Dr. Schwab's, as I am relatively simple in my approach to most things...a nicer word is practical and effective. However, his battle with the concept of Devil, and a God (cap'd for fear of banishment)who allows earthquakes in Haiti, and kids to die from brain cancer, and Pat Robertson's "Pact" statement and "if HE (caps of fear) already knows, why ask"....all of those are legitimate, honest and frankly, beyond my poor power to add or subtract. (Bill Shakespeare)<br /> For one, I can say that I have logged a couple hundred hours IN THE VERY PRESENCE of THE SID...and honestly, he comes on strong and often irrefutably correct. On the God thing, nobody knows, but I would buy into Pascal's Wager...never bet against good stuff if it is free. However, when Jesus in Matthew 18 says: "Whenever two or three of you are gathered in my name, I am also there," bothers me a bit...as in, "Hey, when I am all alone in the bunker, praying like heck and mortars are coming in back in 68, am I all alone?" Sid has dropped his usual intellectual insightive bomb on the Temple...with the usual results....we just stand back in awe. (Sorry Frank, but Sid is THE MAN) JBDr. John Baldwinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4988839706387198339.post-23444822027926891092010-01-14T15:46:50.941-08:002010-01-14T15:46:50.941-08:00Hey, Dino, nice to hear from you. It's a fasci...Hey, Dino, nice to hear from you. It's a fascinating subject, and I'm well aware I'm not the first to ponder or question. My rejection isn't just based on the dilemma; it covers much more territory, not the least of which (nothing original here, either) is the ultimate question: from where did god come? Any way one looks at it, one must accept the existence of something pretty big and complex (ie god, or the universe) without "creation," at least as we understand the word. <br /><br />I've read Kushner. I find it amusing, really, that he must give up omnipotence to make any sense of it. What, really, does that leave of god, or of our prayers? Other than the preceding question, I can find some sense in the idea of a hands-off god, ie one that banged the bang and then stood back to see what happens. Like a science project. But, as I've said, he's either all off or all on. If he is capable of intervention but choses not to he has, in fact, intervened. And if he's entirely hands off, why pray? Or believe. What's the difference? Other than, I suppose, the comfort of believing there's an afterlife of some sort.<br /><br />Personally I've always liked the Kaddish, the part that "they still live on in the acts of goodness they performed and in the hearts of those who cherish their memory."Sid Schwabhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14182853083503404098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4988839706387198339.post-68019492304647303582010-01-14T11:32:00.268-08:002010-01-14T11:32:00.268-08:00I know this is irrelevant to you (since you've...I know this is irrelevant to you (since you've adopted atheism as your response to the dilemma), but there's a lot of recognition of the paradox of a god that is all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-loving. You can have any two, just not all three at the same time. Rabbi Harold Kushner gives up all-powerful in "When Bad Things Happen to Good People." Others have taken other routes to resolving the cognitive dissonance. Rejecting the whole idea of god altogether is just as valid. Just to let you know that the issue has actually been addressed.#1 Dinosaurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01357845504444464397noreply@blogger.com