Cutting Through The Crap

Thursday, July 22, 2010

The Man Who Would Be King


Newt Gingrich, the purported intellectual of the presumed Republican presidential aspirants, has this to say:

There should be no mosque near Ground Zero in New York so long as there are no churches or synagogues in Saudi Arabia.

Brilliant. By that logic, we should stop allowing freedom of the press until they allow it in Tehran, stop having open elections until they have them in Pyonyang, and should ignore the molesting of kids until they stop doing it in the Catholic Church.

This is the guy who'd have us believe he's the cranial cream of the conservative crop, the guy with ideas, the once and future leader of the right wing. Taking his cues from Sarah Friggin Palin.

Unsurprisingly, I see it more like this:
For America to endorse the construction of the Cordoba House would be a reminder to the world of how we, unlike less-free countries, celebrate our diversity and refuse to treat our neighbors as second-class citizens. It's genuinely sad that Gingrich and his ilk prefer to see us aim lower as a nation.

What a bereft bunch they are.

[Update, 7/23: just to add a little more, oh, reality, I'll copy a couple of paragraphs from Andrew Sullivan (and add a little emphasis here and there)]:

A reader writes:

Did Newt really claim that the Cordoba House mosque would "overlook" the World Trade Center site? Rubbish. It is three blocks away and has no line of sight.

And 3,000 Americans? 3,000 human beings, mostly but by no means entirely American, as anyone in reality-based discourse knows. Another writes:

I live two blocks from Ground Zero in a six-building apartment complex with an active tenant association. As best I can tell, Cordoba House is a non-issue among local residents. I haven't heard a word from anybody on the subject - not in the elevators, not in the lobby, not at the neighborhood bars or restaurants. Nada.

Here are the facts. The proposed Cordoba House is not a mosque. It's to be a community center modeled after the YMCA and the Jewish Community Center, with most of its 13 floors devoted to classrooms, fitness and recreation - open to the entire downtown community, not just Muslims. There is to be a "prayer space" that can hold up to 2,000 people. I'll aver that "prayer space" could just be a PC term for "mosque," though I confess no knowledge of what procedures must take place to consecrate a facility as an official mosque. The group's leader, Imam Abdul Rauf, has held services in a small mosque in the neighborhood since 1983. It isn't as though the group materialized out of nowhere or has no history in the neighborhood.



9 comments:

SeaSpray said...

I agree about the Gingrich comment and your analogies.

I adamantly disagree about the mosque. It absolutely should NOT go up near the WTC. Anywhere else in the city fine. NOT the WTC.

It is about respect.

It would be a slap in the face against all the victims families and dishonoring the dead.

And some Muslims have come out stating the terrorists would see it as a victory and symbolic of their success that day.

But it is about respect.

Frank Drackman said...

You been to the Big Apple(thats a nickname for "New York") recently???
It's ALREADY like Riyadh, actually Riyadhs a little cleaner.
And kudos on the Catholic Slam, here's a few others for your Quiver..

1: There aren't any Mosques or Synagogues in Vatican City either, (there is a pretty big Church though)

2: Hitler was Catholic.

3: Pope Rat-zenberger was in the Hitler Youth.

Seriously, how much Fox News do you watch a week??? I only watch that Sunday Morning Doctor bit, and only to do a wickedly cruel Satire of it on my blog the next day...Watch some Rachel Madcow, she's easy on the eye...

Frank "in your head bigger than Ted Kennedy's Glioma" Drackman

Sid Schwab said...

In case you missed the update, SeaSpray, here's a little fact-based information, from another site:


A reader writes:

Did Newt really claim that the Cordoba House mosque would "overlook" the World Trade Center site? Rubbish. It is three blocks away and has no line of sight.
And 3,000 Americans? 3,000 human beings, mostly but by no means entirely American, as anyone in reality-based discourse knows. Another writes:
I live two blocks from Ground Zero in a six-building apartment complex with an active tenant association. As best I can tell, Cordoba House is a non-issue among local residents. I haven't heard a word from anybody on the subject - not in the elevators, not in the lobby, not at the neighborhood bars or restaurants. Nada.
Here are the facts. The proposed Cordoba House is not a mosque. It's to be a community center modeled after the YMCA and the Jewish Community Center, with most of its 13 floors devoted to classrooms, fitness and recreation - open to the entire downtown community, not just Muslims. There is to be a "prayer space" that can hold up to 2,000 people. I'll aver that "prayer space" could just be a PC term for "mosque," though I confess no knowledge of what procedures must take place to consecrate a facility as an official mosque. The group's leader, Imam Abdul Rauf, has held services in a small mosque in the neighborhood since 1983. It isn't as though the group materialized out of nowhere or has no history in the neighborhood.

Anonymous said...

SeaSpray: Hell, why don't we do it right and just forbid Muslims from being in Lower Manhattan? Businessmen, financial types, cabbies, newsies, restaurateurs, tourists, shoppers--the whole lot.

The city would shut down, the financial fall-out would total an already morbid economy, it would be the equivalent of using the Constitution as toilet paper . . . but it would mollify anti-Muslim bigots--who would, of course merely be trying to avoid "a slap in the face against all the victims families and dishonoring the dead."

But of course, what you're suggesting is 'WAY different: Muslims shouldn't be allowed to build a mosque in the oh-so-sacred environs of an abandoned Burlington Coat Factory.

Gee, surely, it doesn't make you a bigot to want to obliterate another group's religious rights just that little bit--just like it doesn't make you a crappy excuse for an American to only want to take a little piss on the Constitution.

Oh wait--it does too.

Molly, NYC

SeaSpray said...

Molly - you apparently didn't read what I said.

But you said "SeaSpray: Hell, why don't we do it right and just forbid Muslims from being in Lower Manhattan? Businessmen, financial types, cabbies, newsies, restaurateurs, tourists, shoppers--the whole lot. "

Well - I don't AGREE with YOU!

That would be so wrong! I am not anti-Muslim. At ALL! or any other faith ..or any non believing person/atheist.

America is wonderful in that we are a melting pot of cultures and I love that about us.

I still think it is disrespectful. And regardless of intent ..it would be symbolic.

And yes ..I can appreciate that we shouldn't let a previous evil prevent us for exercising our freedoms in this country. I get it.

I still say it is respect and symbolism in *this tragic* case.

Funny how people continually put words in my mouth that I would have no part of. Sheesh!

Anonymous said...

SeaSpray--Is this a Poe?

I confess I seem to have more trouble than do most in distinguishing between wingnut shits-for-brains and people who are simply putting me on.

So please: Are you seriously suggesting that you simultaneously believe (a) Muslims shouldn't have the same rights as other religious groups; and (b) you are not a bigot ?

In someone of normal intelligence and decency, I would assume this is a joke. But in your case . . .

* * *
By the way--

And some Muslims have come out stating the terrorists would see it as a victory and symbolic of their success that day.

And you know of these putative Muslims from where, exactly? Do you have a link--preferably to someone who didn't pull them directly out of his or her anus?

Assuming this actually even happened, you seem to be arguing that the rights of religious groups should depend on what some twit "comes out stating."

Is this more of an utterly brilliant Poe, or are you a dumbass, unAmerican bigot?

- Molly, NYC

SeaSpray said...

Molly - I will not engage any further with you.

Your own words condemn you.

I wish you well.

Dr S - I'm very surprised you allowed that. Sadly, I guess you think I deserved it.

?

Sid Schwab said...

A fair point, SeaSpray: you don't deserve the vituperation, but I do think the argument is reasonable. You can't have it both ways, wanting to deny the right to build a community center that has no view of ground zero, on the one hand, and claim no bigotry on the other. Or, if you do make the argument, you can't expect to have no pushback.

As to moderating comments, I can't claim to be consistent. I've deleted a couple that were directed at you or others that I thought were just mean with no content. Molly's comment, though nasty, had meat in it.

Others I've deleted have been from people who just come around and leave nasty droppings with no content at all.

I'd err on the side of not deleting, I guess, but I realize that's not always right.

Frank Drackman said...

Just because I have the right to open up a rifle range across from the Lorraine Hotel in Memphis doesn't mean it's the right thing to do...
For my money, I hope the Rag Heads get there Mosque, people need to be reminded who the enemy is...

Frank "Allah Sucks" Drackman