Some people have told me to calm down. They might be right.
As is obvious to any of the tens of people who come here, some of the dissenters in this country drive me nuts. And, inferences to the contrary, it's not dissent per se, nor, most certainly, is it conservatives as a group. I've written more than once -- even as it has escaped the other-siders -- that I believe in the need for two strong parties. I've wished out loud -- because I wish it were true -- that the Congressional Republicans didn't have their heads so far up their asses. I may not have said it so gently.
The teabaggers bugged me because it seemed clear that much of their rage was based on false premises, and because it was so obviously ginned up by Fox News (sic) and their high-paid RWS™. Many, it seemed, continue to obsess about Obama's country of birth and his past pastor proclivities.
It bugs me that the pater familias of current far-right thought, to whom all bow in obeisance, can say such stupid things as torture "works" because it broke John McCain, overlooking the fact that it made him produce FALSE CONFESSIONS!!!!!; and that, having heard such a stupid thing, no one on the right has the balls to call him on it.
And then I stop and think.
There will always be people who believe in black helicopters, space alien abductions, fake moon landings, FEMA concentration camps. Even as it was undeniable that the economy was tanking, that the war in Iraq had made things worse, that the Constitution was being ignored and we were being lied to about torture, about 30% of people still thought George Bush was a great president. It's simply impossible, given human weakness, to get all people on the same page. For reasons of their own, of which they'll never be aware, nor admit, there will always be people who need to ignore all evidence and to believe, for example, that Earth is six thousand years old. It's human nature. I don't entirely understand it, I don't like it, it makes progress harder, but I have to accept it. None of these ideas is any crazier than that Obama is a Muslim born in Kenya, or that he has a secret plan to destroy the US. If I can smile and marvel at the ability of the brains of some humans to construct walls impenetrable by other facts, why should I let the political idiocy get to me any more deeply?
Well, as long as these folks are just among that irreducibly complex number, the thirty-percenters, I guess I should chill a little, even as the loudspeakers blare that Obama is a traitor while a predictable number of heads bob in agreement. Heck, I could get all conspiratorial about the recently-released DHS memo, to which the RWS™ successfully manufactured all sorts of frothy rage, completely and complicitly misapprehending the whole point of it. Yeah, I could see the rightie reaction as an attempt to debunk the concerns, in order to facilitate the recruitment of a couple of sharpshooters, depressed after their fifth Iraq tour, unemployable, suffering from TBI, happy to take out the "traitor" to our nation, after they've heard it repeated over and over, louder and louder, on the teevee. Even if it's only a few people saying it.
But that would make me a thirty-percenter myself, wouldn't it?
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Every war produces angry embittered veterans - some of them dangerously unstable - who become a hazard to the civilian population they return to.
ReplyDeleteThe mentally and morally wounded among them, who cannot simply return to civilian life, get into drugs, crime and episodes of extreme violence against strangers and even family members.
It is well known that Bush's grandfather - Prescott Bush - was involved in a treasonous plot to overthrow the government and replace it a fascist dictatoship.
This was to be accomplished with the aid of disgruntled WWI veterans.
The plot was revealed by the popular marine general - Smedly Butler - who was to be the person that would recruit the veterans to rebellion - in the name of American Freedom of course.
To his everlasting credit, Butler - a Medal of Honor recipient - blew the whistle on the conspirators.
So... the idea that, certain elements in our country, would try to exploit frustrated and angry veterans to do violence, is in no way far fetched.
This morning a read a report:
"... a U.S. Marine was arrested Sunday morning at Boston's Logan International Airport after screeners found bomb-making materials, a gun and ammunition in his checked baggage."
You may be certain that the young man is not alone in holding on to the training and tools he was given when we sent him to war.
Given the years of stop loss multiple tours of duty, the experience of hideous death and dismemberment and calculated murder produced by our endless war, it would be dangerously stupid to assume that our returning veterans present no danger to us.
Given also the monumental rage and racist hatred being stoked by republicans against our president, I have no difficulty whatever in believing that we may be in need of another Smedly Butler.
EugeneInSanDiego
"It is well known that Bush's grandfather - Prescott Bush - was involved in a treasonous plot to overthrow the government and replace it a fascist dictatoship."
ReplyDeleteYou're kidding right? This is "well-known"? Poppycock disproved decades ago.
Here--I'll do this too. Obama's grandfather sold heroin to kindergartners. There--now we're both made non-sensical statements.
Sid--aren't you a vet? Are you dangerous? Unhinged? Is janet N watching you?
Hey, BB, where you been? I've missed your cogent commentary, where you can be counted on to miss the point. As you did, once again, in the DHS report flap.
ReplyDeleteAin't there anything the RWS™ say that you disagree with? Is there no fact, no explanation that could change your mind once the propaganda is locked in?
If you were in working at DHS, like the person Bush asked to begin the report, would things like this be of concern to you?
Nice to speak with you again, Sid!
ReplyDelete1. Legal if declared. There's lots of guns in the hold on an aircraft.
2. I love the "infernal machine" designation. I always make out my check to the "Infernal Revenue Service".
3. The guy is a leftist who hates Newt Gingrich. Any evidence otherwise?
4. Eugene was somehow NOT missing the point when he tried to smear the very senior Bush? The "Business Plot" was certainly a "black helicopter" moment.
5. Do you enjoy the 10th grader oral sex jokes at your favorite "news" organization?
6. Aren't you a veteran? You must be dangerous.
BTW--Fox News was a late comer to the tea parties. They were trying to get out in front like a lot of people do when they see where things are headed. Rest assured--there were no bombs at the tea parties. No Bill Ayers characters in the group, apparently. I think there are more terrorists in the college prof population (Ayers, Unabomber, etc) than in former military.
"...Fox News was a late comer to the tea parties..."They sure made up for lost time, didn't they?
ReplyDelete"FNC Tax Day Tea Parties." Subtle, huh? Fair. Balanced. I like it.
It's a business. They know how to do it, since their viewership swamps MSNBC with the Olbermann/Matthews cheerleaders for Obama.
ReplyDeleteSo...are you dangerous? Should we be afraid of you? Are you going to use those deadly skills to attack on behalf of the left? I think you're ducking the question.
Not ducking the question the way you duck the "fair and balanced" issue.
ReplyDeleteI'm not answering because it has no relevance to the DHS document. If you don't get that by now there's nothing I can say that will straighten you out.
Disproved? Who disproved it?
ReplyDeleteIt is a basic rule of debate that statements offered without evidence, may be dismissed without evidence.
If the, then, commandant the of the Marine Corp, a decorated war hero and a Medal of Honor recipient gave evidence that the plot happened, my statements are backed by that evidence.
Thus I dismiss what 'Beer Bottle' claims, because he offers no evidence at all, just a denial. He just says it never happened - and then adds a non sequitur.
Who do you think we should believe, a man like Butler or Prescott Bush who traded with the Nazis during World War ll
A documentary with footage of Butlers testimony is coming out - we'll see, what is proved or disproved.
EugeneInSanDiego
"It is a basic rule of debate that statements offered without evidence, may be dismissed without evidence."
ReplyDeleteWell, Eugene, I don't know who put you in charge, but now I guess we'll see you live by your own rules.
"It is well known"
Support this. Give the names of 1,000 people (out of the 300,000,000 in the country) who knew this. Not even people who believe it--just people who have even heard of it.
"my statements are backed by that evidence."
Well, no, you can only affirm that Smedley said it. Unless you personally can support his claims.
So, you have one guy who thinks Bush was trying to overthrow the government. This isn't evidence, it's opinion/ Unless you can prove Smedley true.
But of course, you're the debate expert.
We're waiting.
"Fair and balanced" is their news slogan. Their promotions dept tries to get people to watch. There's a difference, but some people just stare at the tube, don't you?
ReplyDelete"Cheerleaders" is the slogan of Maddow and her ilk at MSNBC.
You were profiled by the DHS. You are a vet, therefore dangerous and likely to be recruited by terrorists. Relevance? I would think so.
Well 'Beer Bottle' the topic, was and is, about the possibility of right wing crazies inciting war damaged veterans - some few of them - not all of them - or Syd, as you imply.
ReplyDeleteTry to stick to the point.
Regarding the plot: They didn't pass out fliers advertising the coup, did they?
Will you? No, you will keep it as secret as possible. Standard procedure straight out of the republican playbook.
Since you are the one without any evidence, at all, you go first; give me the names of one thousand people who knew that "Obama's grandfather sold heroin to kindergartners."
Then, back up you claim, with something more than your opinion, tell us who 'disproved' Butler's evidence of the plot.
We're waiting.
EugeneInSanDiego
Gosh, Eugene, I'm not a professional debater like you, but I would think that if the "basic rule of debate that statements offered without evidence, may be dismissed without evidence" is enforced, then the one making the first statement would go first.
ReplyDeleteSo--do you have any evidence at all--any---that this is "well known" or even "kind of known"? How about "five people not living in the cell with me know"?
Guess not. Nice debate.
Darn, I really wanted to get to the truth about Obama's grandpa.
ReplyDeleteOnce again you evade the point, I guess it's the best (only) thing left to do once you tried the 'Create a Straw Man trope:
Set up a straw man named Eugene who claims to be an expert on debate and claims to be "In Charge"
FAIL!!!
I mentioned a very basic rule.
Another basic rule:
You have it wrong again - I made my point and offered my evidence. Your turn. Ball's in your court BB.
But since you are floundering here: a little helpful clue for you:
The names of "One Thousand People Who Ever Even Heard About It."
Try the New York Times subscription list for the dates in question!
Still Waiting!
EugeneInSanDiego
"I made my point and offered my evidence. Your turn."
ReplyDeleteUh---you've offered absolutely nothing. You've said something. You've repeated an accusation from 75 years ago.
Gee-I saw someone on TV say they saw a UFO. That's my evidence.
"The New York Times subscription list for the dates in question!"
Right. From 1932. Those are your witnesses?
Nice try.
Hey--I heard someone say that we never landed on the moon! That's my evidence!
Any more of your "rules"?
If I may chime in for a moment, boys (I like not having to carry all the water...)
ReplyDeleteThe fascist plot in which Prescott Bush and old man Walker were alleged to have been involved seems fairly well documented. A brief search finds many sources, several of which seem credible. The BBC, for example, not reputed to be crazy like Fox, has this. I could go on.
From my brief search, it seems akin to holocaust denial to argue that it didn't exist. You can't simply reject contemporary evidence because you don't like it.
Well, of course, you can. People can, and do. Of late, they seem to be congregating quite noticeably on the right side of the line.
That there was a hub-bub 75 years ago? Sure. That Bush is "well-known" to be complicit? Still waiting for the "evidence".
ReplyDelete75 years from now, Eugene'sgrandsoninSanDiego will be writing "it is well-known that GW Bush bombed the World Trade Center himself".
I never said I didn't have more evidence BB. There's more, I'm just insisting that you give some evidence about "It was all disproved decades ago" before I put it up here, only to have some winger say: "It ain't so - prove it some more!"
ReplyDeleteI note with surprise and wonder your prison ideation – it just sort of slipped out didn’t it? Do you fantasize about prisons a lot? Turkish Prisons?
Many republicans must having those thoughts, now that the deafening sound of flapping chicken wings permeate the air at DOJ – and with Spanish judges looking so grim and all.
Nonetheless, BB, great Zen Archery, I am writing this in a cell, but not as an inmate, no, I volunteer here and I am working with republicans convicted of various sexual perversions. Spousal rape, incest, page date rape - that sort of thing.
I check the grammar in the books all five are writing on the theme of - how Jesus was sitting on the bunk when they entered their cell.
Devil of a job, they keep trying to plagiarize each other. I am taking the time, and space to write, as they are all off doing… going… Ahh! Engaged in conjugal mentoring by the more senior inmates.
It is a little crowded here, but when the new “George W. Bush” memorial wing opens, rest assured, republicans will rest assured on a clean new bunk, three squares and all the mentoring they ever dreamed of.
Still Waiting!!
EugeneInSanDiego