Just look at the guy. Disgusting, isn't it? The squeaky chirpy voice, the dainty clothes, the fey way he wears the American flag. I'll bet when he was in Iraq, all Arabic-speaking and "helping" our cause, people were recoiling in horror. West Point? North point, more like. Just looking at him makes my skin crawl. Or something:
Is Homophobia Associated With Homosexual Arousal?We sure are lucky to have moralists out there, keeping our military safe from... from... uh... competent people???
Henry E. Adams, Lester W. Wright, Jr., and Bethany A. Lohr
University of Georgia
The authors investigated the role of homosexual arousal in exclusively heterosexual men who admitted negative affect toward homosexual individuals. Participants consisted of a group of homophobic men (n = 35) and a group of nonhomophobic men (n = 29); they were assigned to groups on the basis of their scores on the Index of Homophobia (W. W. Hudson & W. A. Ricketts, 1980). The men were exposed to sexually explicit erotic stimuli consisting of heterosexual, male homosexual, and lesbian videotapes, and changes in penile circumference were monitored. They also completed an Aggression Questionnaire (A. H. Buss & M. Perry, 1992). Both groups exhibited increases in penile circumference to the heterosexual and female homosexual videos. Only the homophobic men showed an increase in penile erection to male homosexual stimuli. The groups did not differ in aggression. Homophobia is apparently associated with homosexual arousal that the homophobic individual is either unaware of or denies.
(Thanks to Spiny Norman for linking me to the study.)
.
There is the little matter of the West Point Cadet Honor Code that LT Choi violated...
ReplyDelete"A Cadet will not lie, cheat, or steal, or tolerate those who do"
Whats "Fey" mean anyway???...sounds like one of those words that make you sound gay if you use it too much... I know, Get an effin Dictionary... you sound like my Dad...
Heres bettin Lt Lite in the Loafers won't be payin back that West Point tuition anytime soon...
Frank
Well, Frankie, other than the fact that he got kicked out for telling THE TRUTH, what you said makes sense.
ReplyDeleteAnd, of course, the point is that whereas the Army followed its rules, it's the rules that make no sense and need to be changed.
Sid, this is too easy, people are gonna think we're the same guy...like in that Steven King movie...
ReplyDeleteUmmm maybe LT Choi should appeal his dismissal to...I don't know...maybe SECRETARY GATES???? Seems like a Regular Guy, saw him on CNN.... or if that fails...
How about the PRESIDENT??, he IS the Commander in Chief after all,when he's not pro-rating Chrysler warranty repairs...Surely, the President wouldn't want such a decent young Officer treated unfairly, its not like he's a Bush Administration Legal Counsel or something...
and if those 2 don't work out, there's always New York Governor Patterson, the HEAD of the New York National Guard...
Sounds like a clear case of Discrimination to me, I'll keep my eye on CNN for y'alls protest march.
Any Y'all try to check MY penile tumescense and their'e gonna be a FIGHT...
Frank
The prudishness of the military has always been an embarrassment. There's no reason two men sexually attracted to each other can't be serving together. For that matter, men and women don't need separate facilities, either. Are the men afraid that women won't be able to control themselves? Sheese.
ReplyDeleteLadies, men don't want to look at you in the shower...don't flatter yourselves. Just like straight men shouldn't be afraid of gay men seeing them in the shower.
Just grow up, everybody. The military should put an end to separate bathrooms, showers, rooms, etc.
I am always confused by the individuals who abhor homosexuality in life but want them to be brought into this world from the womb. Don't prevent them from being born just torture them after they enter our air space. Wouldn't they be happier if they just switched sides on the right to life issue? This may explain why Christians believe in torture.
ReplyDeleteDear Pillpusher,
ReplyDeleteI'm not Psychic or anything, but I'd bet you haven't served a nanosecond in the Military*...
Cause if you had, you'd know "Prudishness" is one thing the Military a'int.
That's why 99.99999% of active duty troops don't want any turd burlgars in the ranks, heck, even the gays don't want em there...
Love how noone'll take this up with the one guy who can change the LTs discharge with a Stroke of his left hand
with his Presidential Pen, I mean...
Frank
Don't worry about your tumescence, Frank. It's not a big thing.
ReplyDeletePillpusher: I guess that's supposed to be snark? Nothing like non sequitur to make a reasonable debate.
Ron: interesting point. It's also true that they're fine with forced birth as long as you don't ask them to pay for the consequent financial needs.
Frank,
ReplyDeleteI wasn't in the military, but I know that people who are sexually attracted to each other can be in close quarters day and night without any problems. That goes for showering, beds, etc. Anybody who thinks otherwise is an unenlightened prude.
Hmm, maybe it wasn't snark. Still not a very on-point argument, even if we're on the same side... about which I'm still not sure.
ReplyDeleteAnd, Frank, I don't disagree the military is full (way too full) of evangelical zealots. Or that the people who ought to be getting rid of DADT are dragging their feet, Obama included -- likely because he's already got a plate full of hot issues.
pillpusher,
ReplyDeleteAs a commander, would you really institute same-sex barracks for mixed sex troops? How would you feel if rapes occurred there? Yes, that would merit prosecution. However, I believe you would bear at least a moral burden. Given that in combat these young people are driven to psychological extremes, is it not more prudent to accept human nature and protect the women?
However I agree that homosexuals should be allowed in the military. I agree that this view might be somewhat hypocritical, as sex can be a problem in this case too. I just don't see any other way.
Incidentally, the sex question isn't so hard to solve in what I see as an enlightened society. Consider that I can legally give Frank $5. Also, Frank can legally fellate me. However if we do these at the same time it's a felony, unless I film the act, then it's pornography and legal again. To cut to the chase, we should supply the troops with prostitutes.
Best,
Sam Spade
"would you really institute same-sex barracks for mixed sex troops?"
ReplyDeleteOf course. This is really no different from the gay question. Just because people are sexually attracted to each other is no reason they can't live together, shower together, etc. Grow up. Get over it.
pillpusher,
ReplyDeleteSo your daughter should be willing to shower with three 19 year-old men who haven't had sex in months, men who have seen their everyday morality give way to killing, who have gone without sleep and the comforts of home.
At least she'd have a place to hang her wash cloth.
--Sam Spade
Mr. Spade,
ReplyDeleteAnd, as an enlightened person, you would allow your son as well.
Hmmm...some of that was cut off somehow. Operator error.
ReplyDeleteAnd, as an enlightened person, you would allow your son as well to serve, to sleep with, and to shower with those same people, some of whom are gay and attracted to him. Grow up--your son will be fine, I'm sure. Maybe he'll even like it.
I think pillpusher is a horny teenager who wants to grow up and join the Army so he can see naked chicks in the shower.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I feel uncomfortable around homosexuals who are openly displaying affection. For that matter, I don't like to see heterosexuals slobbering all over each other in public either.
That being said, if a gay person can act like a professional soldier, then I say let them serve. If they're going to act like a "ferry", then the problem isn't their being gay. They shouldn't be in the military because they don't have the self control of a reasonable and prudent adult.
I feel I can be an open heterosexual without showing everyone my sexuality, just as LT Choi can be openly homosexual without showing everyone his.
Mike
It sounds like pillpusher would rather see naked dudes in the shower. And Sam Spade would like to see Frank naked or something. Sam Spade does seem to have a thing for Frank.
ReplyDeleteBut Sam Spade is right, though. You can't just have people naked together when they can see each other's thingies. That's just gross.
Best,
elvis lives
pillpusher:
ReplyDelete"And, as an enlightened person, you would allow your son as well to serve, to sleep with, and to shower with those same people, some of whom are gay and attracted to him."
I said I believe gays should be allowed in the military, so this part confuses me.
"Every one of the [20 Iraqi War vet women] said the danger of rape by other soldiers is so widely recognized in Iraq that their officers routinely told them not to go to the latrines or showers without another woman for protection." (salon.com)
I don't think women in general share your views, and maybe not men. I'd find showering with women awkward. I can't find the quotation, but before a love scene some actor said to his female co-star something like, "I'm sorry if I get an erection, and I'm sorry if I don't."
You might feel that it is unfair to homosexuals to hide their feelings whereas heteros don't. You're right, but in some cases the minority simply has to accept their lot for the greater good. Being left handed is one example.
elvis --
"Sam Spade does seem to have a thing for Frank."
Yes. Yes I do. Thanks for sharing your insights as well.
--Sam Spade
Sam Spade,
ReplyDeleteYou've taken me incorrectly. I'm applauding you for wanting your son to serve and shower and sleep with men who are attracted to him and get a thrill out of seeing him naked. I'm glad you are that enlightened. Maybe I'll be seeing him soon.
Might be time to close comments on this post. Even I can't figure out what's going on...
ReplyDeleteSam Spade,
ReplyDeleteI thought you were in favor of gays in the military. But you don't think women should shower with men because they'll see the girls' hoo-hoos and get turned on? But gays won't see men's weiners and get turned on?
Or are you saying that real soldiers are aggressive and will fight for what they want, and the gays won't? Then...won't they make bad soldiers?
You are confused.
elvis lives
pillpusher/elvis:
ReplyDeleteYou're excited because I am against m/f barracks? Or maybe you think I'm lying about being pro-gays in the military? How very strange.
I admitted here--twice--that my views are somewhat paradoxical in that I am pro-GIM but anti-shared barrakcs. It's still the best compromise I know. I offered an explanation: gays should expect to suppress their attractions for the greater good.
You can say that this is unfair, but it's reasonable for the majority. Rape is male-female almost as a rule. Also, the majority is more comfortable with segrated facilities. I grant that the majority is not always "right", but it's a factor. Your argument is, gays are uncomfortable in single-sex barracks, so everyone else should be too.
In short, generally speaking no one but you two (?) wants shared barracks. Shared barracks would almost inevitably foster more rape. That homosexuals have to suppress their attractions does not mean that everyone else should have to do so as well.
Run along now children.
--Sam Spade
Frank, mom has taken an interest in your case. Listen up because she usually gets close to 200 dollars for 50 minutes of her advise.
ReplyDeleteShe Says:
So, he is watching “The View” every day. Yes? So, this becomes more clear to me! No?
So, the elements are these:
A homophobic male, who inquires of me regarding mule sex, is surely longing for female contacts, that he gets from the mule, not. So, he voyeuristically creates the relationship ersatz with human females from a safe distance.
Daily, alone, he watches, as well dressed liberalladies torment the occasional fascist “Conservative” male.
This, as the hapless, captive, fascist female “Conservative”, who they drive to tears, is suffering degradations and humiliations.
His Sadomasochismas is so economical!
First: Masochismas allows him to vicariously experience the punishing pain of the malevictim that his self-loathing requires, in the safety of his home. His blood is shed not.
Second: Participating in the painful humiliation of the Aryan femalevictim satisfies the sadisticus element.
Third: And best of all, he may now inflate his ego by perceiving of himself as an open-minded person, Yes?
You must tell your friend that all of this is harmless, and he must not worry. He needs to think only of the far worse things his drug addicted, cigar smoking, republican masters have done to children, pages, countries and beatenwifes, in diapers yet. So far as we know, he tortures not, except for himself and truth.
But you must tell your friend also, that he musts avoid the ersatz Christiannots, who are saying they can reassign him – they could drive him to the nutsenhaus.
Best wishes,
EugeneInSanDiego
Fear not for YOUR penile tumescence Mr. Drakman, the measuring instruments don't come that small.
ReplyDeleteMr Spade,
ReplyDeleteYou're no better than the bushies--you want the gays in their own housing? Maybe better--their own unit! Then you won't have to be afraid of their "units", right? You really were good with blacks having their own units, too?
You say you're in favor, but you still want to treat them different. Sheesh--grow up. Gays are the same--let them live with the straights. Stop being afraid.
Sid, its YOUR Islamic President who won't sign that Presidential Order getting rid of Don't Ask/Don't Smell... and anyway, who's the Homofobic Bastard that started that policy??
ReplyDeleteAnd I only watch "The View" because of that hot Joy Behar.
Frank
Spade--you're not confused, only "paradoxed". Sure. And some of your best friends are gay, right?
ReplyDeletePillpusher, you're a little whacked, you know. Don't you get that women don't want to be ogled by guys in the shower? The same as guys don't want to be ogled by other guys? That's why we have separate bathrooms.
The real danger of sexual liaisons in the military is when one guy is thinking too much about protecting the girl he's been seeing naked rather than thinking about the whole unit. Or thinking about one guy's hershey highway.
But you don't get it, do you? You think being in is about being fair, not about being good.
Best,
elvis lives
pillpusher,
ReplyDelete"You're no better than the bushies--you want the gays in their own housing? Maybe better--their own unit!"
And where did you get that idea, oaf? Why don't you try reading my posts before responding. You have no conception of what I repeated what, three times? I might just as well have spent my time conversing with an eggplant.
"Then you won't have to be afraid of their 'units', right? You really were good with blacks having their own units, too?"
What a steaming load. This has no bearing on anything I said. The "font of liberal righteousness" facet of your personality is repellent. Your pun on 'unit' is a clunker.
"You say you're in favor, but you still want to treat them different."
I didn't say gays should be treated differently in any way, nor do I think so. In fact I discussed gays coping with heterosexuals in barracks.
"Sheesh--grow up. Gays are the same--let them live with the straights. Stop being afraid."
I developed a tic upon reading this. I can only hope it will go away, along with the memory of you.
You're tilting at windmills. You're either a narcissist or a fool, or both. Scorn would be generous. I am soiled to have had a discussion with you.
--Sam Spade
Mr. Spade,
ReplyDeleteYour words: "I am pro-GIM but anti-shared barrakcs."
But then...your words: "I didn't say gays should be treated differently in any way."
Gays in different barracks? But treated the same? Go on...just call them faggots and be done with it.
Idiot #2:
ReplyDelete"The real danger of sexual liaisons in the military is when one guy is thinking too much about protecting the girl he's been seeing naked rather than thinking about the whole unit."
It's worrisome that you feel clever spouting this effluvium. Oh, and sorry about the hole in your Mom's liver.
--Sam Spade
pillpusher --
ReplyDeleteBy "shared barrakcs" (well, barracks) I meant shared between men and women, peabrain. That is obviously something important to you, so I thought it obvious.
--Sam Spade
I guess that's obvious to you, with your giant brain. But, of course, we're talking about gays. And what you said was:
ReplyDelete"pro-GIM but anti-shared barrakcs."
Don't backtrack now. Maybe it's Freudian. Maybe what you mean is..."pro-GIM but against sharing their barracks myself."
Here's how you really feel:
"gays should expect to suppress their attractions for the greater good"
Thanks, gays! Maybe someday you can be yourselves.
Okay, boys, that's it. There's a point where it all gets tiresome, and I'd be surprised if this adolescent vitriol doesn't turn away people who might have had something interesting or relevant. So I'm closing comments on this thread. I've never done it before.
ReplyDelete