Cutting Through The Crap

Saturday, March 6, 2010

Listen Up, Trolls

My recent call for outrage was met, entirely predictably, by the usual trollage from some, and silence from others, in the comments. Boilerplate stuff, really. So, for the unconvinced, I offer a couple of clips. If you think you can only force yourself to watch one, I'd say go to the second.




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10 comments:

SeaSpray said...

Dear Dr Schwab - I assume you consider me one of the silent trolls ..which actually causes me to feel sad and frustrated. I don't see you the same way because you have a differing opinion. *I am sorry* for it was never my intent to be such a person in here and I do not consider myself in that group because I have ALWAYS been polite. Sometimes tease, never called anyone names in here either that I can recall or railed against anyone.. except Pelosi or Frank and even then never vile things against them.

I read your post and was grieved after reading it. I am not seething with anger and I know you have your preconceived ideas of me, telling me my news sources, telling me what I am like as a Christian and the people I associate with ..none of it good in your mind.I am not angry at people without faith/atheists, agnostics or people of other faith. Do ..I believe the Christian message? *Yes 100%.* Are there valid questions and did you ask valid questions? Yes.I wanted to come back in to address those... thoughtfully and compassionately... but other things have been going on in my life and have been distracted.

Regarding faith ..I sincerely suggest you get a copy of C.S. Lewis' "Mere Christianity". He can far better answer your questions than I ever could. Are you familiar with his works at all? My pcp gave that book to a colleague who professed being an atheist and became a believer in God after reading it.

While I have no hx with this site: http://www.christianodyssey.com/history/lewis.htm,I am linking it as it has an interesting info on Lewis' background. A couple of excerpts: "Lewis’ close friends also played a vital role in causing his heart to be open to Christ’s love through their talks with him about Christianity and Christ. One was Owen Barfield, who had also trod the road from atheism to theism and finally to Christ. Another was Nevill Coghill, who Lewis was amazed to discover was a Christian. Two close friends on the English faculty at Oxford’s Magdalen College, where Lewis also taught, Hugo Dyson and J.R.R. Tolkien, were also among a group of diverse people who witnessed the Lord to Lewis. "

and

"In 1929 C.S. Lewis found himself challenged with God’s existence. This important milestone in his conversion journey was reached rather suddenly. As he tells the story, on one occasion during this time he happened to take a bus ride. When he got on the bus he was an atheist. When he came to his stop, he got off the bus believing in God’s existence. Not that Lewis was seeking God. He said he didn’t really want to find him. The revelation about God’s existence was something of a fright to him. He wrote in Surprised by Joy: "Amiable agnostics will talk cheerfully about ‘man’s search for God.’ To me, as I then was, they might as well have talked about the mouse’s search for the cat."

None of this proof..but if you are sincere about your questions ..then reading the works (eloquent writer)of this intellectual ..former atheist may be of interest to you.

I am glad you are able to vent about politics here and think it's best if I don't because would only add to your angst. They say fear is behind anger and I know you fear for our country. You also don't seem to have any inward peace.Presumptuous for me to say ..but you've written that way. I hope that things work out for the good of all of us and our magnificent America.

I do hope you will forgive me for any offense I may have committed in your blog ..either with you or your commenters. Again ..never my intention. I have always considered us blogging friends.

Perhaps someday, you will treat us to more surgical posts. I do hope so. :)

Sid Schwab said...

Well, this and the other post to which I referred were about Liz Cheney's despicable attacks on those lawyers. Are you unwilling to say it's wrong? Or is that what you meant by "grieving?" Neither post had anything to do with a "Christian" message. They were about a resumption of McCarthyism, about a completely perverted view of what this country and its laws are about.

I infer, from your statement that you don't want to vent about politics, that you don't find her attacks repulsive.

I find that disappointing. I'm not sure, though, if it's surprising.

I'm not sure how you got to an issue of faith, at least with respect to these posts.

SeaSpray said...

I haven't watched the clips yet.I felt grieved because because of the anger unleashed in it and I'm in a personal place now where I am feeling I should be protective of myself because I realize I've been through a lot these last 4 years and decided I should be doing what I can to nurture myself,both emotionally and physically.I just realized how badly I felt after reading it(the angry tone)and figured it can't be good for me either.I also think a steady diet of the news is probably not healthy..but it's hard to pull away from. I am going to try to limit the amount of time though. Obviously we have to be informed... but I've been overboard.

I'm not politically minded tonight. If you want my opinion,I will watch the clips. I didn't think it much mattered if I did because whatever I say if contrary,I am already labeled.

I just see the anger you have,you see me as a troll(if you knew me in real life,you would NOT think that at all)which I of course am not. I don't want to fuel that fire and was never my intent. I do love a good debate,but I don't want to feel put down anymore. And you know what they say,"If you can't stand the heat .... " I am not that person you seem to lump me in with.

I brought up the faith aspect because that is another area you have railed against. You also asked some great questions in some early, yet fairly recent posts.

Faith is a top priority for me and trumps politics. That being said,there are times in my life I put it on the back burner.. which baffles me given it's importance.

For me,when I'm not faith centered ..is when I am most unrested/fearful and when I am more faith centered ..no matter what is going on,I have that peace that surpasses understanding that God promised.

I just wanted to let you know that I do care and think they were worthy questions and if you are sincere about your inquiries ..CS Lewis ..*educated*..former atheist would surely have some interesting reads for you.

I recall reading somewhere that he would take walks out in the Garden after dinner with Tolkien, in which he would challenge Tolkien's faith and they'd share their views.
Wow! I'd love to have overheard those conversations!

I am not the most educated or articulate person and would hate to turn you or anyone else off from seeking God. But Lewis ... his works ...are worthy of your time.

And I am not saying you are seriously interested. I just respect your questions and prefer to direct you to a source you may enjoy reading, while gaining additional insight. Or they may confirm all that you have written ..although ..honestly ..I think you'll have food for thought.

Perhaps you already read the link ..but I love what Lewis said here:"One of Lewis’ most-often-quoted statements is from Mere Christianity, where he insists that people are confronted with three choices by Jesus’ claims about himself. Thinking of Jesus as a profound moral teacher will not do, said Lewis. People must decide whether he is a liar, lunatic or the Lord, as he claims:

"A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic—on the level with a man who says he is a poached egg—or else he would be the devil of hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon; or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."

I'm baking oatmeal cinnamon,walnut,cranberry bars now and think I am going to grab that book to read again. I have found that God can reveal new insights even in things already read. I guess because we come back with new perspectives or our spirits are ready for deeper insights which I eagerly anticipate.

SeaSpray said...

I haven't watched the clips yet.I felt grieved because because of the anger unleashed in it and I'm in a personal place now where I am feeling I should be protective of myself because I realize I've been through a lot these last 4 years and decided I should be doing what I can to nurture myself,both emotionally and physically.I just realized how badly I felt after reading it(the angry tone)and figured it can't be good for me either.I also think a steady diet of the news is probably not healthy..but it's hard to pull away from. I am going to try to limit the amount of time though. Obviously we have to be informed... but I've been overboard.

I'm not politically minded tonight. If you want my opinion,I will watch the clips. I didn't think it much mattered if I did because whatever I say if contrary,I am already labeled.

I just see the anger you have,you see me as a troll(if you knew me in real life,you would NOT think that at all)which I of course am not. I don't want to fuel that fire and was never my intent. I do love a good debate,but I don't want to feel put down anymore. And you know what they say,"If you can't stand the heat .... " I am not that person you seem to lump me in with.

I brought up the faith aspect because that is another area you have railed against. You also asked some great questions in some early, yet fairly recent posts.

Faith is a top priority for me and trumps politics. That being said,there are times in my life I put it on the back burner.. which baffles me given it's importance.

For me,when I'm not faith centered ..is when I am most unrested/fearful and when I am more faith centered ..no matter what is going on,I have that peace that surpasses understanding that God promised.

I just wanted to let you know that I do care and think they were worthy questions and if you are sincere about your inquiries ..CS Lewis ..*educated*..former atheist would surely have some interesting reads for you.

I recall reading somewhere that he would take walks out in the Garden after dinner with Tolkien, in which he would challenge Tolkien's faith and they'd share their views.
Wow! I'd love to have overheard those conversations!

I am not the most educated or articulate person and would hate to turn you or anyone else off from seeking God. But Lewis ... his works ...are worthy of your time.

And I am not saying you are seriously interested. I just respect your questions and prefer to direct you to a source you may enjoy reading, while gaining additional insight. Or they may confirm all that you have written ..although ..honestly ..I think you'll have food for thought.

Perhaps you already read the link ..but I love what Lewis said here:"One of Lewis’ most-often-quoted statements is from Mere Christianity, where he insists that people are confronted with three choices by Jesus’ claims about himself. Thinking of Jesus as a profound moral teacher will not do, said Lewis. People must decide whether he is a liar, lunatic or the Lord, as he claims:

"A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic—on the level with a man who says he is a poached egg—or else he would be the devil of hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon; or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."

I'm baking oatmeal cinnamon,walnut,cranberry bars now and think I am going to grab that book to read again. I have found that God can reveal new insights even in things already read. I guess because we come back with new perspectives or our spirits are ready for deeper insights which I eagerly anticipate.

Frank Drackman said...

One Man's Troll is another Man's Poet Laurette...
But how did you know I'm 3 feet tall and live under a Bridge?
Hey, A-rab terrorists are still being held at Git-Mo in violation of the UN Charter, Geneva Convention, and I don't know, its probably violating one of the 10 Commandments..(Thou shall not imprison A-rab terrorists without Due Proces??)
Oh yeah, if youre gonna die, this is the year, No inheritance tax...

Frank

Sid Schwab said...

By the way, SeaSpray: I don't consider you a troll. However, you have been, and remain, among the silent on the subject of Liz Cheney's vile attack on those lawyers.

Sid Schwab said...

Sorry, jd, that last comment didn't make the cut. Besides, we'd already heard from you on the subject, and it was quite enough. In fact, given the tone of your rejected comment, it'd be okay not to hear from you again.

And, yeah, I get to set whatever tone I want, and you don't. It's a blog.

Also, one more time (and only one, since it seems well beyond your grasp): Liz is judging those lawyers the way McCarthy judged people. Liberals who want to see Cheney et al in jail, understand there needs to be a trial first. A concept lost on Liz, and you.

SeaSpray said...

I am relieved to know you don't consider me a troll Dr S. Thank you for letting me know.

regarding Liz and all of this ..I did not know anything about this ..nor had I seen the add. I have not been following politics as much. The last I knew was that Pete Stark was replacing Wrangle.

I don't really have an opinion on the Liz add ..other than to say that prisoners are entitled to representation and that regardless of the attorney's personal beliefs ..they are obligated under oath (I think?) to fight for their client.

I don't know enough about the background of all of this to comment fairly. But only having Rachel's clips to go on ..then I'd say she was misguided with the add.

I don't understand what the problem is for Liz regarding legal representation. ?

The first clip was hilarious! :)

About Liz going on with Rachel ..I don't see that ever happening because I don't know that MSNBC could be trusted not to edit to suit their objectives... given their past track record,they are the least reliable news source. I do like Rachel though and of any of them would trust her the most.

Sid Schwab said...

"I don't know that MSNBC could be trusted not to edit to suit their objectives... given their past track record,they are the least reliable news source."

Good one. Absolutely hilarious.

Sid Schwab said...

Seaspray, watch this. (the first few seconds is a commercial for Colbert.)