Cutting Through The Crap

Wednesday, March 24, 2010

Where Where They?


Interesting, isn't it? Suddenly newspapers and -- wow -- television news are full of information about the health care bill. Information about the bill. How it will affect people. The good, the bad. Gone is the horse race bullshit, the focus on legislative maneuvers, the latest outrageous characterization by the most viewer-grabbing lunatic. For a micromoment anyway, they're sort of, y'know, doing their job. The job, of course, being to inform, to educate, to explain, to hold accountable.

Well, most of them. Fox "news" wants to focus on Joe Biden's F-bomb.


I do, however, think Joe was wrong. It's not a big fucking deal. It's a BIG fucking deal.


20 comments:

Frank Drackman said...

Umm Sid, I know your old enough to have denied Christ in person but ummm how can I say this diplomatically???
When someone says somethings a "Big Fucking Deal"(If your really hip you'll just say "BFD")theyre really saying its NOT a BFD...
Now when Israel knocks out Iran's breeder reactors in a few weeks(I'm thinkin Easter Sunday:), THAT will be a BFD..

I mean, it won't be a BFD...

Frank

Timmyson said...

Up here in Ontario, Canada, there's a program on our provincial version of PBS called The Agenda. They feature a lot of panel discussions and stuff, and I generally find them to take a much more thorough look at issues than any of the comercial news sources (or our national public broadcaster).

I saw this episode recently regarding emotion and politics, and the role the one plays in the other. It's quite pertinant to stuff you talk about on a regular basis. As far as I know, it will play in the US.

Hope you enjoy it.

Sid Schwab said...

Thanks, Timmyson. I'll most definitely watch it.

For a brief time a few years ago there was a recurring forum on our PBS, where intelligent and thoughtful people on all sides of the issue would discuss in depth the topic at hand. Given the polarity of the people, and the respectfulness (humor, even) of the discussions, it was a breath of fresh air. Didn't last long, though. Can't imagine why.

Sid Schwab said...

Subtle distinction, Frank. When I say BFD, I mean it as you say. Ideally, with a certain sneer. But when the veep says it about an actual BFD, using the actual words, then it reverts to the language of our founders, where big was big, deals were made, and fuck meant fuck.

SeaSpray said...

I laugh with the best of em and can appreciate the comedic humor with this piece. Also ..Joe seems like a regular guy.

However ..it was crude and *NOT* the time to do that *exactly* because it was a BFD. He trashed the moment. History in the making and he was not a class act for something so monumental.

It didn't take away from the profound event that it was ..but just so inappropriate. that is back room stuff ..not when the people around the world ..kids in the mix hear it.

The president also did not look like he appreciated it. He must hold his breath every time he and Biden are on the same platform and Biden is about to open his mouth.

Sid Schwab said...

Spoken like a true Foxobeckian, Seaspray.

You may also have noted (and then again, most likely not) that Biden had tears in his eyes and was visibly choked up Sunday night when he and Obama spoke after the passage of the bill. I'd bet his friend Ted Kennedy was on his mind. After decades of trying, and not long after the death of his friend, he rightly saw this as a really big deal. Did he need to say what he did? Nope. Did he intend for it to be unheard? Yep. Is it worth the hot air that Fox is expending on it? What do you think? Oh wait. We already know.

Meanwhile, provide me a link to your writings when Dick Cheney told Patrick Leahy to go f*ck himself, on the Senate floor. I'm sure it was pretty much in the same vein, right?

Anonymous said...

I too (like Timmyson) am Canadian. I particularly enjoyed when Richard Gwyn (on old geezer who I would love as a grandfatherly figure.. even though I'm not white) pretty succinctly stated what we have known all along.. that Sarah Palin is "an individual of no intellectual caliber whatsoever.... she's stupid" yet somehow has tremendous influence. And he did this with that regular dour expression (at 8:20ish). Hilarious.

Larry said...

Sid:

If you and Frank ever quit, I'm never reading this blog again. I swear there are nights when the chuckles turn into outright guffaws.

Larry

SeaSpray said...

You are so predictable Dr S!

I was actually going to say to give me credit for my own opinion and don't mention FOX and then I thought ..Nah ..he'll understand.

Silly me.
********************************
So are you saying that *no other* *news* network has mentioned it? The comedians sure have.
*********************************
Actually, I heard it well after the fact because *I did not see the historic moment live* ..nor have I watched any of it other than a few glimpses that caught me by surprise. I was in the family room talking with my husband & son and when I heard it was coming on ..I left the room,went back to bed.
I have felt crushed by this passing and am genuinely concerned.
************************
You said "Spoken like a true Foxobeckian, Seaspray."

This is one of the key reasons I have dropped off from commenting here.(And believe me ..I have seriously taken issue with many things you have said in your posts of late) It is pointless. I give JD a lot of credit for hanging in there.

You ridiculously & insultingly tout "Foxbeckian" as any reason anyone could possibly have for dissent over anything. But,I realize you need to do that. It seems you are so consumed with the "FOX", "Foxbeckian" effect that you simply can't see past them ..that if anyone disagrees .."FOX" must be the reason. "Foxbeckian" "FOX!" "FOX!" "FOX!" I feel that you try to compartmentalize & generalize to suit your needs & finite perspectives. Your blog- your prerogative. But the difference between us,is that I will allow for other possibilities for your reasoning,whereas you can't fathom that anyone of any reasonable intelligence could possibly think their own thoughts (if conservative) without first running to "Foxbeckian" to see what they/I should thinK! Gosh ..why in the world did I protest the Vietnam protests in HS by going to class when most of the kids stayed outside in a sit in? I must've had a vision.. been channeling the "FOX" of the future. Never mind it was popular to protest the war and there were n-o-o-o conservative news stations.I couldn't possibly think for myself in 1971 at 16 yrs old... without "FOX." Had to be channeling the future "FOX".

It's so absurd that I even need to explain this a-g-a-i-n.

I am not perfect by any means and I've let the F bomb drop ..a few times in my life,but never publicly. Our sons were raised not to talk trash like that & to show *respect*. When their friends did it ..I politely asked them not to and said I appreciated their respect. I have some friends that talk that way.I'm not a goody two shoes,but I have chosen not to. I know they must with the guys and I don't care, but there is a *time and a place*. My husband doesn't either.

I also dislike how teenagers today use it all the time.I was amazed at how that changed over the years and saw it first hand in the ER. male patients,with girls present & me there and others just swearing,letting the words fly..with no sense of respect whatsoever. And now,the girls are just as bad.I don't like it and I don't need that word for humor. Did love the Steve Martin in the airport scene tho.

Hey, I write about bajingoland and bajingo brochure(a little blogger remorse with that one)and I laugh at off color stuff(Throckmorton being my favorite blog conversation ever, so believe me I'm not a prude. But it is about respect & decency & that was such a BFD in the present & historically ..it was seriously inappropriate.

Cheney was not at the Biggest FD,in front of the world. If any vp, my sons or any conservative did that..I'd feel exactly the same way..sans "FOX!" I'm not mad about it,but responded to your post & find the double standard interesting. This would be all over the networks if this was a conservative. And it's not a BFD,but was a dumb slip & in poor taste.

SeaSpray said...

I don't care how anyone lets off steam dem or republican behind the scenes providing they are not intentionally trying to hurt someone.

The point is the BFD was a BFD.

Biden has sworn other places and picked up audibly and so you'd think he would've learned by now. I felt bad for Obama for that awkward moment.

We've all had them. Someone is saying something inappropriate and we smile and try to look like it was okay ..but you're really not okay with it... but you carry on.

The difference was he was in the middle of the BFD.

Gotta love Biden's overall comic relief though. :)

Anonymous said...

Bono was allowed the gaff of certain word, once, at the Golden Globes. In the heat of the moment, in his Irish culture speech, he said "fookin." In Ireland, it may be allowed as "cultural." The Irish people do use this word lightly.

In America, it's a nasty word. But I can't say I've never been sorely hurt by something, not even casual, that I have said the "F" word. It denotes intense feelings.

If one works honest work, with all classes of life, minimum wage and construction, it's common. The word can be considered crass, but so is the short phrase, "That Sucks". Vulgar.

So Biden spoke honestly, and said the F word. maybe everyone should look at the real story, and get over ticky-tack crap. Oh, no, is crap a bad word???

Sid Schwab said...

See, here's the thing, Seaspray: to refer to you as a Foxobeckian is not to say you get all your ideas from them. It's to say you're their perfect audience. It's to say your way of looking at things is just what they like: they want to feed into a sort of irrational anger that many people have; they want to have people gravitate to them (and, therefore, to improve their ratings and, therefore, to make more money) who don't question their shtick, who have preconceptions and will like what they do. Who will need what they do, in order to validate their fact-free rage.

You've said many times you thought Beck is great. And you've said many times that you really don't understand or pay attention to certain things, even though they seem central to your arguments.

Yes, I do fixate on Fox, because it's such a dangerous force in our democracy. It's unprecedented to have such a far reaching medium (you know, of course, that ol' Rupert owns much more than the TV network, right?) devoted EXPLICITLY to promoting a particular party, and to do so without regard for fact. I think it's dangerous.

You're thinking MSNBC, and, to an extent, you're right. I stopped watching it a year ago. The difference is that they actually have conservative shows on their network (one, anyway), and forceful conservatives as regular commentators (Buchanan, among others. Alan Colmes was a wimp), and, in their news segments, they have actual reporters, not hacks. Olbermann is over the top; but he's intelligent and sane, as opposed to Beck who is either a certified paranoid schizophrenic, or a cynical deceiver for money. Maddow is very partisan, but smart and factual, and she regularly has people of opposing viewpoints and gives them a fair opportunity.

Hannity is dumb, O'Reilly is a very damaged person who seems to need constant stroking, and when he doesn't get it, he gives it to himself. As it were.

But, yeah, I don't like MSNBC much (I watch clips of Rachel, not her show, once in a while). What's interesting to me, though, is that MSNBC has way fewer viewers; as I've said, I don't think liberals need the constant reinforcement that certain conservatives do.

The need is what I'd call, oh, Foxobeckian.

PS: I haven't seen much of jd lately; have you?

PPS: what I prefer in contrary commentary is presenting something new, or challenging in a way different than I could hear on Fox. It's a rarity; and when it happens, I think I respond in kind. When it's the same old crap, so are my responses.

Sid Schwab said...

PPPS, Seaspray: Tell me what it is about the health care bill that makes you so sick it sent you to bed. Seriously. I'd like to know.

SeaSpray said...

Let me be clear about this...I was not and am not running around saying "Oh the horror! ..Our Vice president said a swear word! oh ..I have the vapors...where's my fan!"

I only said something because of this post. It's hilarious in one way ..but I don't care who did what in the past ..2 wrongs don't make a right..never did ..never will. It's a blip in time. Just that his blip was at the most monumental time politically speaking and tarnished for a few seconds. I like Joe as a person. I can appreciate the excitement. But given his history with the word and public gaffes ..he should lose that word in his vocabulary. Seriously ..you just know Obama must hold his breath anytime he is around Biden and he will be speaking. I feel for him there.

Anonymous 11:30pm - Cultural is the operative word. It bothers me to see the decline of respect for others and in another's presence and it does seem to be cultural. I know you meant culture of another country ..but overall I've really noticed it the last 15 years.

Even common courtesies, helping someone pick things up that dropped, holding a door open ..things like that ..have declined. Most do ..but I am disappointed when I see that kind of insensitivity.

The "F" word is crass. For me ..and I guess this is kind of funny ..if you think of how JD in SCRUBS has his imagination take over ..but every time I hear see the word ..i *see* the act ..the sex act that is. And sometimes ..I really don't want the image. I see "F-----G as exactly that. (Usually missionary, but it varies;)Don't most people? Or is it used so often in certain circles it is about as exciting as the words then,doorknob,or desk? So anymore than he would go up there and say "this is a big penis" ..the word really did not belong. Again ..it's over but just was not the time. I don't think he is a horrible person. He is a human prone to misspeaking.

I have used the word suck, but only with close friends and rarely. I use it more in the blogs.

Crap? I hate that word.(Sorry Dr S - I know it's in the title) The kids all use it all the time ..even adults..but again ..every time I hear it I see a pile of crap. I'd rather not. Maybe other people don't take the words as literally ..but I see it. And as far as I'm concerned none of us have rectums or bowel movements and using that word forces the issue. I'm just sayin. ;)

I have no problem with the words piss,pissy,pissing or pissed. Pissed seems like such a perfect word to describe a certain kind of anger. I rather like the words and don't see why it's a big deal. Maybe because my aunt always said the cat was full of piss and vinegar ..I thought piss was okay.

Okay-digressing for a moment. When I was in HS (70s), people said pissed and jerk off a lot. I had no idea they were vulgar. One day ..fairly new to meeting Mr SeaSprays quiet and proper family I used the word "Jerk off" and boy did he shoot me a look and I kept talking. As soon as we got in the car I asked him what was wrong and then he explained Jerk off. OOPS! :)

Okay I will submit this and begin a new comment because I know space runs out.

Sid Schwab said...

Thanks, Seaspray. You're the new George Carlin.

Still waiting for your explanation of why HCR has sent you to your bed.

SeaSpray said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
SeaSpray said...

Dr S - you still did not answer this question:"So are you saying that *no other* *news* network has mentioned it? The comedians sure have."

Was this blooper mentioned on other channels? besides the comedians?

In my 1st comment I said: "However ..it was crude and *NOT* the time to do that *exactly* because it was a BFD. He trashed the moment. History in the making and he was not a class act for something so monumental."

You responded with: "Spoken like a true Foxobeckian, Seaspray."

Then I spent most of my second comment explaining my own values and that I somehow formed them BEFORE FOX ever came on the scene.

You just responded to my comment with "See, here's the thing, Seaspray: to refer to you as a Foxobeckian is not to say you get all your ideas from them."

In your first comment ..you threw the "foxbeckian" at me inferring my opinion was influenced by "foxbeckian" ..except this time (for me)this wasn't even about politics..other than it was in a political setting.

You continued with: "It's to say you're their perfect audience."

*Nothing* to do with my opinion on swearing.

"It's to say your way of looking at things is just what they like: they want to feed into a sort of irrational anger that many people have; they want to have people gravitate to them (and, therefore, to improve their ratings and, therefore, to make more money) who don't question their shtick, who have preconceptions and will like what they do. Who will need what they do, in order to validate their fact-free rage."

Again - your comments/opinion about Fox, foxbeckian" have *nothing* to do with my comment/opinion about the VP's swearing.

My point now is ..you lean on that far too much ..so much so that you assumed all my values/opinions..must be from "FOX" Foxbeckian".

Do you concede that at least in this one instance (There ARE others) ..you were not fair to me regarding spouting that off at me? And can you see where that is condescending ...and oh so frustrating? And denial on your part? And can you appreciate ..where I feel it is pointless to comment about anything serious in here anymore ..because you clearly proved my point about your throwing that at anyone with conservative views that disagree with your own?

SeaSpray said...

You said: "Yes, I do fixate on Fox, because it's such a dangerous force in our democracy."

I say silence is dangerous. I say *it is dangerous when journalists don't do their jobs and don't ask the questions ..the tough ones*. Kudos to Bret Bar! (sp?)Where were those kind of interviews during the election? GRETA gives long, uninterrupted interviews or videos and then tells the audience to decide. Even Tom Brokaw last September on Meet the Press *admitted they didn't do their jobs* and *didn't know much about Barack Obama*.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzMas1bVidw

How do you feel hearing them repeatedly state they don't know and Brokaw ..*honestly* stating they didn't do what they should have? He *is* a reputable reporter, anchorman, writer, etc.

Both reporters ADMIT they don't know enough about him. Well what could they have done to rectify that? Would some investigative reporting have clarified things about OBAMA? McCain sure took the heat while they tossed gumdrops and kisses at Obama. O'reilly thinks he did a tough but fair interview and Obama agreed with him ..but Bret's interview was the real deal. Where is that now? Acorn? Climategate? (I know your opinions there) - my point is where was the reporting across the stations? And did they make a big deal about the BFD? I don't care ..but you know if Cheney, Rove ...any of the hated conservatives did that ..oh my gosh ..we'd still be hearing about it ad nauseam.

Both sides do this when it suits them. Do you agree?

Please know that I do not share the sarcasm of the video creator and I both "like and respect" Tom Brokaw and have ever since I first began watching him on the today show in 1976. I just don't always agree with his views.

FOX *DOES* present factual info that the mainstream press *turns a blind eye* to. Anyone can *research any statements* that are made. The people have seen this and why flocking to the station in droves. They are thirsty for all the news. Am I saying everything is unbiased or accurate? I couldn't possibly make a blanket statement. but being a *new* convert to the FOX tv network ..I am astounded at the profound difference from what we watched on MSNBC since 2001 until December 2009. It was what was NOT reported by the other stations and hearing the contrast that has even my husband never turning on MSNBC anymore. We do put CNN on... and local.

So ...in a way and ("sins" not your word-I'm using it to make a point) ..you say FOX commits sins by what they report and I say the liberal stations commit sins by *omission* of reporting.

Someone could be sent to jail for life if the prosecution withholds evidence that would shed different light on the case. They need all the facts to best make a decision on the defendant's future.

Well ..in reporting ..at least FOX *is* reporting stories no one else is. Anyone can *research them*. But when the other news outlets do not report ..no one can form accurate opinions.

It's like the reporting of the Vietnam war. There was only one kind of reporting. Left political views. No other news sources. Thank God for satellite and the ability to now have conservative views reported and discussed... AND challenged. AND ..the ability to validate or disprove the facts. But *ALL the facts have to be reported* for the whole picture to be digested and processed... to be fair. Report everything and let the people decide. Transparency.

SeaSpray said...

You just responded to my comment with "See, here's the thing, Seaspray: to refer to you as a Foxobeckian is not to say you get all your ideas from them."

In your first comment ..you threw the "foxbeckian" at me inferring my opinion was influenced by "foxbeckian" ..except this time (for me)this wasn't even about politics..other than it was in a political setting.

You continued with: "It's to say you're their perfect audience."

*Nothing* to do with my opinion on swearing.

"It's to say your way of looking at things is just what they like: they want to feed into a sort of irrational anger that many people have; they want to have people gravitate to them (and, therefore, to improve their ratings and, therefore, to make more money) who don't question their shtick, who have preconceptions and will like what they do. Who will need what they do, in order to validate their fact-free rage."

Again - your comments/opinion about Fox, foxbeckian" have *nothing* to do with my comment/opinion about the VP's swearing.

My point now is ..you lean on that far too much ..so much so that you assumed all my values/opinions..must be from "FOX" Foxbeckian".

Do you concede that at least in this one instance (There ARE others) ..you were not fair to me regarding spouting that off at me? And can you see where that is condescending ...and oh so frustrating? And denial on your part? And can you appreciate ..where I feel it is pointless to comment about anything serious in here anymore ..because you clearly proved my point about your throwing that at anyone with conservative views that disagree with your own?

You said "And you've said many times that you really don't understand or pay attention to certain things,"

I have NOT said I did not understand things *many times*. I have said that I had not read something or followed something so that I could fairly comment, etc. (I understand a lot). I do pay attention ..but I don't follow everything. There isn't enough time in the day to follow it all. Sometimes .. I DON'T care. And when I do discuss something that is valid ..you will respond with "Fox" "Foxbeckian". That is your crutch.

SeaSpray said...

You said, "You're thinking MSNBC, and, to an extent, you're right."

I never mentioned any other news station. I was only commenting on the BFD. You brought "Fox" "Foxbeckian" into it... and went on in this last comment about all the talking heads. I never brought any of them up or the networks. I *only* gave my opinion on "BFD". I had no desire to discuss any of them, but responded with the Brokaw clip since you described FOX as dangerous.

You said, " I don't think liberals need the constant reinforcement that certain conservatives do."

That is subjective and I disagree. Apparently most of the American population does at this time.

You said: "PPS: what I prefer in contrary commentary is presenting something new, or challenging in a way different than I could hear on Fox. It's a rarity; and when it happens, I think I respond in kind. When it's the same old crap, so are my response"

The problem with that ..then what you are really saying is you won't accept anyone's conservative opinion and as you've already demonstrated ..you would assign any dissenting conservative opinion to "Fox!" "Foxbeckian" and so it is a lose-lose for anyone sincerely making a conservative point. What am I to do? Say I don't agree with the sanctity of life, a strong military, fiscal responsibility (Yes - I know about Bush and disagreed), celebrating Christmas,...which by the way was a non issue until the ACLU started making a fuss about it), a coach being allowed to say prayers with his team per their request in a secular school, the ten commandments posted in various public places... and I could go on. Dr S - these are all views I held way before FOX ever came on the scene. I told you ...I have held conservative views (amazing given the political climate and what was popular and peer pressure),since I was 14 ..1969/1970. Even admired Nixon(Pre- Watergate, but he did do things good things not known to people and opened the door to China) and Henry Kissinger ..master of diplomacy and I thought independently. I just saw things differently. My family is half conservative and half liberal. I care about social programs and helping the poor. There has to be balance and we need BOTH parties.

But you see ..when you throw "Fox!" "Foxbeckian" at me when ever I share an opinion ..well ..there isn't any point. Has it ever occurred to you that people have their views but they finally have a public voice to espouse them. The liberals have had that voice ..since the 60s. The conservative voices were in a minority and certainly NOT on the nightly news broadcasts.

When you give me the "crap" "Fox! "Foxbeckian" responses .., imo ...you are being disingenuous, by attempting to diffuse the point of addressing the specific question. I have been sincere and I have not been mean to you or anyone. But I have hear "Teabaggers" being referred to as dumb, violent, unable to think for themselves and I'd have to go back and read.

Re: George Carlin - Thanks - but no thanks.

My m-i-l's 80th b-day Saturday and so will be busy. I will tell you why I went to bed during the signing.